Bring Back The Friggin' Trains

[GuitarsCanada]

Remember the days when you could cross the country on trains? Man, those were the days. Talk about a nice vacation as well. Back when CP Rail had the Northern heading up as far as Thunder Bay at one time. Then you could take the Ocean from Toronto all the way to Halifax on CN and then VIA for a while.

I think VIA is still making a portion of that run but it ai't what it used to be. Growing up I had an Uncle that lived way up North. About 3 hours north of Thunder Bay and then all the rest of my Mother's side on the east coast. So when we were kids we would head one place or the other and we always went by train. We would get one of those big rooms and the trip on that trian was the best part of the vacation for us. You even had those big dining cars and you would dress up for dinner, it was a big affair.

Most vacation travel today sucks... and airports are just getting worse and worse. I sure wish I could have taken my kids on those trips before it all vanished. We would spend hours in those dome cars just looking at the scenery. Hope some of you had the chance to do that.

[Accept2]

They used to ship cargo by trains too. Now the roads are full of trucks and they wreck havoc on the roads.......

[GuitarsCanada]

Ain't that the truth. About the only thing I see on rail now-a-days is vehicles. Mostly coming out of Michigan heading to some staging area where they will end up on transporters.

[SinCron]

I might be going on a trip on the train with my girlfiend. Might head to Canada's Wonderland. Damn that place is fun. Also on another note, if I dont get a job within the next month, Im going to bike across Canada and raise funds for things like Asthma, ADHD, Autism and GAS (Not really but it would be nice).

[GuitarsCanada]

Take up a collection for your favorte forum as wel :D

[Wild Bill]

Yeah, trains were great but there's a reason they're not used as much as before. They cost more!

First off, forget about passenger travel. Railroads haven't made money off passengers for years, at least here in North America. The real money comes from freight. You have to make enough freight money to subsidize your passenger trains.

So why is most freight shipped by truck or whatever? Because train costs more and is more unreliable. Your stuff can get lost easier.

Everybody sees the logical first step. Use trains for the long haul stuff and once it gets to the city THEN use trucks to hit all the spread out end points! It would cut down pollution, highway congestion, dogs and cats would sleep together, save the unborn baby seals from drunk drivers...

I never hear anyone talk about WHY it isn't happening! If rail could be so great there must be some reasons why it's not being used.

So the real question is not where the trains have gone but why they're not an attractive venue.

I don't know all the reasons but I do know that one of my buddies in the 70's used to get HUGE bucks for walking the rails in Northern Ontario, eyeballing track as a safety inspector. I also remember when the railroads were gov't run. Everytime the gov't tried to rein in labour costs it was strike, strike and strike.

The unions always won. I'm not saying that the problem was solely the unions. Doesn't matter. The rest of the world went their own way anyhow. That's the thing about customers. They're not union and not management. They can walk away from both of them.

[hoser]

We don't even have train tracks anymore!
I loved taking the train from St. John's to visit my grandparents the couple of times I did it as a kid. When myself and my wife were in Europe we travelled by train and it was awesome. I don't know why it works there and doesn't here. the passes are insanely expensive in north america.

[sneakypete]

thats one good thing about Japan...they have excellent train services. I use it every week to go to a pulp and paper factory to teach the staff. And the bullet train is just so cool. About 2 hours to Tokyo, it`s like flying without leaving the ground.

[faracaster]

I love train travel.
I have to go to Montreal (from Toronto) for business a couple of times a year and I'm always lobbying to do it by train. This spring I had to do it twice and we took the train both times. You get to relax, read, make cell calls, no take off tension, internet is available on most trains now, and have a nap. Generally the architecture of the stations is fabulous so I'm digging that. I do wish it was cheaper however, and I wish we weren't always in such a hurry to get someplace. Also scheduling is a problem. I live outside the GTA, (about an hour and a half) and work in the city. Generally I stay in TO all week and go home on the weekends. The VIA trains that stop in my town only do that till about 7pm. Which means I have to leave Toronto by 5:30. Well let me tell you number of nights I'm finished work by 5:30 in a year I could count on one hand.
Cheers
Pete

[Milkman]

thats one good thing about Japan...they have excellent train services. I use it every week to go to a pulp and paper factory to teach the staff. And the bullet train is just so cool. About 2 hours to Tokyo, it`s like flying without leaving the ground.

Shinkansen rocks for sure. You don't fully appreciate how fast you're moving until you encounter another train on the adjacent track travelling in the opposite direction.


Trains usd to b a cool way to travel in Canada, but the distances are just too vast and the cost is ridiculous.

It takes something like twenty hours to get from New Brunswick to Toronto (thirteen hours if you drive) and costs more than a flight.

[Xanadu]

I took the train back from oakville once and there was a screaming baby behind me, so I started watching the 40 yr old virgin, and she told me to turn it off because it had swearing so, i told her to turn her baby off.:2guns:

[faracaster]

I took the train back from oakville once and there was a screaming baby behind me, so I started watching the 40 yr old virgin, and she told me to turn it off because it had swearing so, i told her to turn her baby off.:2guns:

LOL Forgot your headphones???

[Xanadu]

LOL Forgot your headphones???
yes. Actually, I did. I also forgot my guitar, but luckily my parents were still in Oakville and they came back to Ottawa, about a week later.

[SinCron]

Take up a collection for your favorte forum as wel :D

If there's enough. I gotta find places to crash along the way.

[MaxWedge]

I was very lucky growing up. My dad was a 'railroader' with CN. On many occaisions I had ridden in a caboose, as we(mom&I)would take the caboose on dad's freight and get dropped off at the graineries in mom's old home town. A couple of days later dad would be coming back from the other way, pick us up and we'd ride the caboose home. It was fantastic. When dad became an engineer in '73. I'd meet him at one of the outlying crossings and ride in the engine's cab. Of course this was not allowed and I'm sure there would be hell to pay if the CN officials ever found out.
In 1969 my parents put on the train and sent me to west coast to spend the summer with family. There probably were crew on board who were looking out for me, but I didn't know. The dome car through the rockies is spectacular. This was just the beginning of a summer of eye opening adventure.
This country came together with a railroad. There should be a service coast to coast. You fly you miss so much. :smilie_flagge17:

[Milkman]

I was very lucky growing up. My dad was a 'railroader' with CN. On many occaisions I had ridden in a caboose, as we(mom&I)would take the caboose on dad's freight and get dropped off at the graineries in mom's old home town. A couple of days later dad would be coming back from the other way, pick us up and we'd ride the caboose home. It was fantastic. When dad became an engineer in '73. I'd meet him at one of the outlying crossings and ride in the engine's cab. Of course this was not allowed and I'm sure there would be hell to pay if the CN officials ever found out.
In 1969 my parents put on the train and sent me to west coast to spend the summer with family. There probably were crew on board who were looking out for me, but I didn't know. The dome car through the rockies is spectacular. This was just the beginning of a summer of eye opening adventure.
This country came together with a railroad. There should be a service coast to coast. You fly you miss so much. :smilie_flagge17:


It IS a beautiful way to travel and you do see more, but let's face it, it takes five hours to fly from Toronto to Vancouver. By train it must be, what three days?


This is a big assed country. Maybe if we had bullet trains like those in Europe and Japan.....

[Xanadu]

It IS a beautiful way to travel and you do see more, but let's face it, it takes five hours to fly from Toronto to Vancouver. By train it must be, what three days?


This is a big assed country. Maybe if we had bullet trains like those in Europe and Japan.....
yeah, It takes half an hour to get from ottawa to toronto on a plane and 5 hours on a train.

[Xanadu]

I was very lucky growing up. My dad was a 'railroader' with CN. On many occaisions I had ridden in a caboose, as we(mom&I)would take the caboose on dad's freight and get dropped off at the graineries in mom's old home town. A couple of days later dad would be coming back from the other way, pick us up and we'd ride the caboose home. It was fantastic. When dad became an engineer in '73. I'd meet him at one of the outlying crossings and ride in the engine's cab. Of course this was not allowed and I'm sure there would be hell to pay if the CN officials ever found out.
In 1969 my parents put on the train and sent me to west coast to spend the summer with family. There probably were crew on board who were looking out for me, but I didn't know. The dome car through the rockies is spectacular. This was just the beginning of a summer of eye opening adventure.
This country came together with a railroad. There should be a service coast to coast. You fly you miss so much. :smilie_flagge17:
so you like to ride in the caboose eh? That's cool ;)

[Wild Bill]

1/2 hour by plane from Toronto to Ottawa?

If you live by Hamilton where I do it's 1/2 hr in the air and 5 hrs driving through a clogged QEW highway, getting parked at the airport and fighting through all the crowds...

I used to fly to Point Claire, Quebec once in a while. I literally spend more time driving than flying.

All this talk about Japan, bullet trains and stuff makes it sound like Canada is kinda "horse and buggy".

[Milkman]

1/2 hour by plane from Toronto to Ottawa?

If you live by Hamilton where I do it's 1/2 hr in the air and 5 hrs driving through a clogged QEW highway, getting parked at the airport and fighting through all the crowds...

I used to fly to Point Claire, Quebec once in a while. I literally spend more time driving than flying.

All this talk about Japan, bullet trains and stuff makes it sound like Canada is kinda "horse and buggy".


Canada IS horse and buggy compared to Japan and Europe.

As for the 5 hrs driving on the QEW, that may be an exaggeration.

Even if I drive to pearson from Brantford (twenty minutes farther than Hamilton) it's an hour and a half under the absolute worst conditions.

Then say you're landing at PET in Montreal, you may have an hour getting through town so the absolute worst case would be 2.5 hours plus the 45 minute flight.

It would take 6 hours to drive or seven to train to Montreal.


It's ALWAYS faster to fly and safer than driving.

Trains are nice, but ours suck.

[GuitarsCanada]

I have always thought "why can't North America adopt bullet trains" and use rail as a mass transit option. I think I got a viable answer from a guy that travels to Japan a lot. He said that the reason they use them hugely is that the road systems suck to begin with, there are way too many cars and not enough space. Also, and more importantly (and I think this goes for most of Europe as well) is that they are small countries. You can literally cross the country on these bullet trains daily. He also told me that they utilize planes as large as 747's on daily routes for distances of say Toronto to Montreal.

Over here you have rail service on things like GO transit and such, that work very well at a reasonable cost. But the country is so big that a bullet train would just not be viable with all the open space we have. We sometimes forget that you can drive for 3-4-5 days within our borders. Some of these other countries are very tiny compared to Canada. Is anyone buying that theory? It makes some sense.

[Milkman]

I have always thought "why can't North America adopt bullet trains" and use rail as a mass transit option. I think I got a viable answer from a guy that travels to Japan a lot. He said that the reason they use them hugely is that the road systems suck to begin with, there are way too many cars and not enough space. Also, and more importantly (and I think this goes for most of Europe as well) is that they are small countries. You can literally cross the country on these bullet trains daily. He also told me that they utilize planes as large as 747's on daily routes for distances of say Toronto to Montreal.

Over here you have rail service on things like GO transit and such, that work very well at a reasonable cost. But the country is so big that a bullet train would just not be viable with all the open space we have. We sometimes forget that you can drive for 3-4-5 days within our borders. Some of these other countries are very tiny compared to Canada. Is anyone buying that theory? It makes some sense.


Maybe I'm missing something, but the very size of Canada should make bullet trains even MORE feasible. A train that travels at 350 kmph would cut the distances down to size.


The roads in Japan are in amazingly good condition, but yes, the population density impacts every part of life.

Their trains (not just the Shinkansen) are incredibly efficient and almost always on time. I suppose it IS out of necessity.

[GuitarsCanada]

Agreed Milkman, but say for daily commuting.. which is what they use their rail system for mainly. It works for them becasue they can use it for work everyday. Ours would be fine say from the Niagara Region to Toronto or maybe Windsor. But even at 300 KPH how long would I have to sit on a train to get to Montreal? I think you can break it down by daily use VS vacation use. For vacations there was nothing like that cross country train ride. But if you need to get anywhere fast it's just not viable, even at those speeds. Only in selected areas and then you would have to have enough passengers to make it worth while to operate.

I think the culture has something to do with it as well. We are more of a "I want my own car to go where and when I want" and we still have lots of options for parking etc. Take a look at London England, it has gotten so bad they are now charging you to bring your car into city limits to force a reduction in traffic. Even as bad as it is driving into downtown TO we are still nowhere near that in terms of traffic once you actually get into the city.

[Milkman]

A bullet train has long been discussed for the Windsor to Montreal corridor.

I think it could work VERY well, but the capitol costs are staggering.


If I could grab a train the would get me from Brantford or hamilton to Detroit in a couple of hours (easy at those speeds) or to Montreal in the same time, I'd use it for sure.

It's coming, but it will be a while.

[Wild Bill]

Canada IS horse and buggy compared to Japan and Europe.

As for the 5 hrs driving on the QEW, that may be an exaggeration.

Even if I drive to pearson from Brantford (twenty minutes farther than Hamilton) it's an hour and a half under the absolute worst conditions.

Then say you're landing at PET in Montreal, you may have an hour getting through town so the absolute worst case would be 2.5 hours plus the 45 minute flight.

It would take 6 hours to drive or seven to train to Montreal.


It's ALWAYS faster to fly and safer than driving.

Trains are nice, but ours suck.

An hour and a half from Brantford? At what time of day?

I was a road salesman for many years. Invariabley when I had to fly out of Pearson I'd hit the highway at 6:30 in the morning. It always seemed to be raining and the traffic was moving slow. The Skyway Bridge would be plugged (you don't have to take that if you're coming from Brantford) and then it would be stop and go all the way to the airport. Then it was Park'n'Fly, over to the terminal and fight through the crowd to get to my boarding gate.

Still, for that 5 hours I was thinking of round trip. Air Canada would get me to Pointe Claire in slightly over an hour. So round trip was 5 hrs on the ground and maybe 2.5 in the air.

At the Pointe Claire end my boss would pick me up less than 5 minutes after my plane landed and 5 minutes after that I was at the home office.

I did try flying out of Hamilton airport. Getting there was a breeze! Nice big parking lot out front (free!) and as you walked in the terminal there was a nice old lady waiting to tell you "The pilot will be a minute or two late. Why don't you have a coffee?"

I handed them my baggage, walked out and boarded the plane. Unfortunately the plane was one of those short hop "darning needles". Coming back it was stormy and I was sure I was going to toss my cookies! So much for that alternative.

[Milkman]

An hour and a half from Brantford? At what time of day?

I was a road salesman for many years. Invariabley when I had to fly out of Pearson I'd hit the highway at 6:30 in the morning. It always seemed to be raining and the traffic was moving slow. The Skyway Bridge would be plugged (you don't have to take that if you're coming from Brantford) and then it would be stop and go all the way to the airport. Then it was Park'n'Fly, over to the terminal and fight through the crowd to get to my boarding gate.

Still, for that 5 hours I was thinking of round trip. Air Canada would get me to Pointe Claire in slightly over an hour. So round trip was 5 hrs on the ground and maybe 2.5 in the air.

At the Pointe Claire end my boss would pick me up less than 5 minutes after my plane landed and 5 minutes after that I was at the home office.

I did try flying out of Hamilton airport. Getting there was a breeze! Nice big parking lot out front (free!) and as you walked in the terminal there was a nice old lady waiting to tell you "The pilot will be a minute or two late. Why don't you have a coffee?"

I handed them my baggage, walked out and boarded the plane. Unfortunately the plane was one of those short hop "darning needles". Coming back it was stormy and I was sure I was going to toss my cookies! So much for that alternative.

It really depends on the time of day as you say, but the LONGEST it has ever taken me has been 1.5 hours from Brantford to Pearson. If I'm fortunate enough to be able to schedule a mid morning or afternoon flight it's less than an hour.


Flying out of Hammertown is a pleasure. I don't mind small planes. I fly a lot and as long as it's no more than a two hour flight, a dash 8 or Canadair Regional jet suits me just fine.


I've also been doing sales for quite some time and travelled as a musician for many years prior to that.

I use the five hour rule. If it's more than a five hour drive, I fly.

So, Detroit and upper Ohio I drive. Pretty much anywhere else I fly.

[Wild Bill]

---"Flying out of Hammertown is a pleasure. I don't mind small planes. I fly a lot and as long as it's no more than a two hour flight, a dash 8 or Canadair Regional jet suits me just fine."

Dunno why but I have no problem flying as "ballast" when a friend rents a Cherokee or Cessna for an hour or two. Yet turbulence really bothers me in a commercial plane, especially the smaller ones.

I think it's because in a commercial plane I can't really see what shape the pilot's in....

[GuitarsCanada]

Ah yes... the company planes. But that is cheating. It's the only way to fly. Especially using the smaller airports. We had three at one time. A Cessna Caravan, Conquest II and a Citation business jet. So travel was great when things were good. But nowit's back to commercial air travel due to cutbacks. I avoid it at any cost.

[Robert1950]

1/2 hour by plane from Toronto to Ottawa?".

Yeah, an hour and a half to get to the airport. Another hour to get luggage checked and pick up your boarding pass and make to the right terminal gate. Then a half hour arguing with guards telling them that there isn't an AK47 in your guitar case that you couldn't take as carry on even if it really is a guitar. Then a half hour delay due to late flights from New York, Boston and Chicago landing because of clashes between security and other musicians who wanted to take their instruments as carry on..........:2guns:

[Xanadu]

Yeah, an hour and a half to get to the airport. Another hour to get luggage checked and pick up your boarding pass and make to the right terminal gate. Then a half hour arguing with guards telling them that there isn't an AK47 in your guitar case that you couldn't take as carry on even if it really is a guitar. Then a half hour delay due to late flights from New York, Boston and Chicago landing because of clashes between security and other musicians who wanted to take their instruments as carry on..........:2guns:
well when I took the train I had to wait for about an hour too, and if you don't try to take a guitar with you, its not a big deal at the airport, especially for not-internation flights.

[sneakypete]

well in Japan a LOT of folks use the trains every day...just easier, no parking or traffic to worry about... BUT in the big cities they have guys who push people on the train so the doors will close. Luckily they don`t get that crowded here. Over 120 million people living in a country thats 1/4 the size of the province of Quebec makes it financially feasable in Japan...just not enough users in Canada to make it work I guess.