My Son wants to teach guitar..want advice

[ed2000]

My Son is 24 and is a 3rd year auto mechanic apprentice. He has worked at several garages and dealerships but he claims his bosses never treat him right, accuse him of mistakes and working too slow. The last month he worked at a landscape company hoping he could make good money. He quit saying the work is too hard. His current idea is to be hired at a music store teaching guitar lessons. He has 15 years experience and is self taught. He 'knows' all the scales and can fake most styles of music. He apparently has been giving lessons to friends for the last 7 years(according to his resume) and feels he is 'the teacher'. I'd like to know if he can make a decent salary and if he is hireable considering his lack of credentials.

[GuitarsCanada]

My Son is 24 and is a 3rd year auto mechanic apprentice. He has worked at several garages and dealerships but he claims his bosses never treat him right, accuse him of mistakes and working too slow. The last month he worked at a landscape company hoping he could make good money. He quit saying the work is too hard. His current idea is to be hired at a music store teaching guitar lessons. He has 15 years experience and is self taught. He 'knows' all the scales and can fake most styles of music. He apparently has been giving lessons to friends for the last 7 years(according to his resume) and feels he is 'the teacher'. I'd like to know if he can make a decent salary and if he is hireable considering his lack of credentials.

Music teachers working out of music stores are not getting rich, that's for sure. But your post is disturbing. Are you concerned about these past jobs and the feedback? I have heard some of those same complaints from many a young person. It's a growing concern.

[sysexguy]

Making a living doing what you love is the ultimate and ....not everyone gets this privilege.

I wouldn't say teaching guitar is either easy or a way to make big $$$$ but for many it works out great. A couple of caveats:

Working for a "school" has many advantages however the house always wins. -Some of the "best" students will likely be dropped off by parents looking for anyway to get their hot yoga in. The school will love these clients but the guitar teacher is an unarmed babysitter.
-With youtube and ultimateguitar, the online resources available to good students will a) require the teacher keep up and b) allow the student to advance beyond his lessons ie. it will be hard to keep the good ones

Working indy requires either transit to your students or a proper place for lessons and one must be firm as to cancelation rules however a good teacher with an establish clientele can make a good living.....Often the best teachers are looking for a new guy to refer their overload so starting up, with the right moves may not be so hard. As the roster gets filled, the unfocused students can be let go.

I don't know anyone who is successful (legally) who wasn't working their ass off at 24.....I still am and that was a loooooooonnnnnnng time ago.

Andy

[Paul]

"Knowing" is not the same as understanding. The best teachers in any subject have a deep understanding of what their students want to know.

I've been asked to teach many times, and I always decline because:

1) I have little patience.

2) I don't have enough time to learn the material I want and need to learn for me. Where would I find the time to learn the songs that the little kiddies want to know? One of the best guitar teachers in Brantford spends HOURS every day learning and preparing the material that the kiddies want to know. In the language of the Ministry of Education, he has to prepare an Individualized Learning Plan for each and every student.

3) I really have very little patience.

I would suspect that the best teachers that work hard to meet the needs of their students will spend as much preparing for a lesson as they will teaching a lesson. That 15$ per 30 min you charge becomes 15$/hour in a hurry. That's gross.....start dealing with taxes and the number goes down. Will the music store you work for have any kind of benefit package for dental or prescription drugs? Is there a vacation plan?

Run your own business as an independant and you end up with a whole new set of challenges. How long did Hamm say he spent on his annual tax return? If you are on your own, do you carry liability insurance?

I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea for your son to teach, only he knows that. But if I was a student, or a parent paying the freight for a student, I would not be too interested in a teacher that can only "fake" his/her way through any style.

[Mooh]

I work from my home instruction studio and carry a student load of 60 from September to June and about half that in July, August is vacation. It is hard work, requiring one-on-one attention for the full lesson, lots of prep work which includes transcribing exercise and tunes, photocopying, study, business procedures, etc.

Several things in the original post are dsiturbing:

1) "self taught"...Does this mean he reads music or not? Non-readers should simply not teach lessons.

2) "15 years experience"...Doing what? Playing? Teaching? Gigging? What exactly? Lots of folks have played for 15 years and aren't qualified to teach anything.

3) "He 'knows' all the scales"...Why the quotes around 'knows'? It makes it look like he either doesn't, you doubt him, or neither of you understand their importance.

4) "can fake most styles of music"...Fake? Really? Fakes don't get far in this line of work, and you'd be surprised how few people are actually fooled for long. As for "most styles", wait until someone asks for baroque, raggae, slip jigs, or a cultural style outside the box. What's he going to do with advanced students who don't want to fake anything?

5) His credentials seem to indicate an unwillingness to work hard and take direction, so I expect any references would either indicate the same or be non-existent. I wouldn't hire him based on the OP.

6) "feels he is 'the teacher'"...That is not a qualification, that is ego.

If all this sounds harsh, consider the following. Most guitar teachers don't stay guitar teachers for long. It's hard work, long hours at unwelcome times of the day, and technically and creatively demanding. In my small neck of the woods, in the ten years or so that I have been teaching on a permanent basis, several guys have set up shop as guitar teachers and then bailed on their students. A couple of these guys have even got referrals from my waiting list because I wanted to help them get established. A couple of others ran out of things to teach after a few rock song intros and the student's realization that they were spinning their wheels. And a couple took their students' money and split. Because of all this I tend not to recommend the work to anyone who appears ill-prepared.

The Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum has a teachers discussion which may be more enlightening.

Peace, Mooh.

[darreneedens]

Alot of people have made good points referring to the original post... so without re-hashing to much I will give my 2 cents.

I taught for 3 years before moving to a new city... I loved every minute of it, and would still be doing it if it werent for my inconsistent schedules these days.

I will say... it is more work than most would expect. You are not simply going into a room and playing guitar for 8 hours and punching out. You need to have something prepared for each and every student that walks through that door, and you also have to make sure it right for them... and have back up plans. You also have to be good with kids/teens.. on a sunny afternoon in july most kids dont really care about the guitar at that moment. KNOWING many styles is a must, because every kid has something different they want to learn, and you should understand it enough to explain and teach it... including reading music.

The other part people may not think about is dealing with the parents, the job takes people skills... and mommy is going to want to know how her son is improving... or how to keep him interested... or why he isnt a rockstar... or why strings break. The list goes on really.

I taught 40 students a week, and would do so after working my 9-5 day job... and you better be on top of you game or kids will eat you alive... and at the end of the day you are mentally drained.

At the same time it is rewarding and once you gain a relationship with your students and their parents it is a lot of fun, you can laugh and joke... you know each kids quirks and what bands they hate lol.

Oh and if you are working at a music school... dont forget recitals, kiwanis festivals... and all that kind of stuff. Takes lots of prep work, and taking extra time to go in on the weekends to watch, or help put on a concert.

There is my piece... it ended up being longer than I thought.

I will end on this note. I went through a lot of teachers growing up.... WHY? Because I could pick out the FAKERS, and as I progressed and wanted to learn different styles I would move on.

[ed2000]

I really appreciate all the above replies and the effort that went into answering my concerns.
No, my Son can't read music. He has inherited a great musical ear(not from me) that lets him learn quickly by listening to the notes.
I'm doing my best to encourage him to stay with auto mechanics and get his apprenticeship completed without stomping on his dream.I'll let someone else do that.

[dan_]

3 years is a lot of time invested...hopefully your son can see the value in completing his apprenticeship, even if it is a fall-back for later in life. I'm around the same age as your son though, and can only imagine the conflict he may be feeling. His poor work ethic (or perceived work ethic) may just be a reflection of his frusteration with trying to find the right 'path' in life - not always an easy path to find.

[zontar]

I'm a former guitar teacher, and back up what others have said here--including-

Making a living doing what you love is the ultimate and ....not everyone gets this privilege.

I wouldn't say teaching guitar is either easy or a way to make big $$$$ but for many it works out great.
The only reason I kept going as long as I did was that I loved the teaching part of it. I certainly wasn't getting rich from it, and often did temporary, part time, and even full time jobs at the same time--often just to make ends meet. But I didn't get into it to get rich. I did it because I enjoyed it. What is't easy about teaching guitar is usually the non-teaching side.


-Some of the "best" students will likely be dropped off by parents looking for anyway to get their hot yoga in. The school will love these clients but the guitar teacher is an unarmed babysitter.

The parents will often make or break it whether a student is one of those ones you enjoy teaching. Some of my favorite students to teach were horrible guitarists, but they enjoyed learning & playing guitar so much it was a lot of fun. And the parents were supportive, even though they know their child isn't very good. If you teach kids be prepared for various types of parents. Those who consider you a baby sitter are among the worst--and I had a few of those--the kids tend to be undisciplined and don't care about guitar. They know why they're dumped off each week---and they act like it.

Other parents aren't viewing you as a baby sitter, but you can tell they are NOT supportive. They are the ones that will act nice to your face, but behind your back will bad mouth you. Watch out for them. I once had a kid, who was 10 or 11 cry through his last lesson. He wanted to keep learning guitar, and was actually showing great progress, but his parents were convinced he wasn't any good, so they switched him to a different instrument. The school didn't care because they kept the family as a customer. But the kid cried the whole lesson, he loved guitar that much. I hope when he got older he went back to the guitar.

BUT--supportive parents can make all the difference in the world. Many of the kids in the group above are still fun to teach and can turn out to be quite good, but it would be better if their parents were supportive.


... it is more work than most would expect. You are not simply going into a room and playing guitar for 8 hours and punching out. You need to have something prepared for each and every student that walks through that door, and you also have to make sure it right for them...

The other part people may not think about is dealing with the parents, the job takes people skills... and mommy is going to want to know how her son is improving... or how to keep him interested... or why he isnt a rockstar... or why strings break. The list goes on really.

At the same time it is rewarding and once you gain a relationship with your students and their parents it is a lot of fun, you can laugh and joke... you know each kids quirks and what bands they hate lol.

Oh and if you are working at a music school... dont forget recitals, kiwanis festivals... and all that kind of stuff. Takes lots of prep work, and taking extra time to go in on the weekends to watch, or help put on a concert.


I failed to properly estimate how much work my first festival as a teacher would be, I actually finished writing out a song in the format needed for the adjudicator (basically the judge), seconds before one of my bands was about to start playing. My second went better. But there is help in this area as I had my more advanced students doing some of that themselves, and I double checked it. It saved me time, and helped them develop skills for themselves.

Then there's that parent thing again. If I ever start teaching again, before I accept a student I'll want to know from each parent what their expectations for their child are, and what their expectations of me are.

But the ones you get that relationship with--those are ones to remember.

SO it can be fun, but it's more work and less money than people imagine.

[Mooh]

"No, my Son can't read music."

That says it all for me. Of all the things one needs to do to teach music, one must be able to read music. There are no exceptions. I know there are those who disagree with this statement, but they are wrong. One can learn from a non-reader in the short term but not over the long term.

Peace, Mooh.

[Paul]

"No, my Son can't read music."

That says it all for me. Of all the things one needs to do to teach music, one must be able to read music. There are no exceptions. I know there are those who disagree with this statement, but they are wrong. One can learn from a non-reader in the short term but not over the long term.

Peace, Mooh.

I just tried to boost your reputation on this thread a second time, but apparently I "must spread it around before giving you more reputation".

I have no clue how good a guitar player you are or aren't, but out of everybody who posts here, you have the best handle on what it takes to teach. You've been teaching for years, so you must be doing something right.

I am a music education absolutist. By the time kids hit highschool most of their social decisions are based on what music they listen too. When I was in high school there weren't a lot of girls obsessed with Duran Duran who would date a guy like me, who listened to BB King and Booker T & the MG's. If people are going to spend as much time and money as they do on listening to music, it behooves us to teach them everything we can about the art form that colours every aspect of their lives. We use music to celebrate, we use it to mourn, we use it to seduce, we use it to self-medicate.......shouldn't we make every effort to educate? We owe our children a music education that goes way beyond the level of "See Dick. See Dick Run."

We would never accept an illiterate English teacher, why would anyone consider an illiterate music teacher a good resource?

Before the flamethrowers come out.....yes there are many gifted yet illiterate musicians that we can learn from, (SRV, Wes Montgomery.....), but only those who have reached a level of facility on their instrument can really learn from musicians like them. For a true beginner, the teacher must not only know the instrument, the teacher must know and understand the language of music.

Does anybody remember the episode of Friends where Phoebe tried to teach Joey how to play guitar?

[Mooh]

Paul...Thanks.

"When I was in high school there weren't a lot of girls obsessed with Duran Duran who would date a guy like me, who listened to BB King and Booker T & the MG's."

Wow! Not only did I listen to Roy Buchanan and Hound Dog Taylor, but I listened to pipe organ and folk music, with my Zeppelin and Stones fix. The girls likely thought I had some multiple personality disorder or something!

There is always more to learn. There's so much music, why limit oneself?

Peace, Mooh.

[Paul]

"When I was in high school there weren't a lot of girls obsessed with Duran Duran who would date a guy like me, who listened to BB King and Booker T & the MG's."

Wow! Not only did I listen to Roy Buchanan and Hound Dog Taylor, but I listened to pipe organ and folk music, with my Zeppelin and Stones fix. The girls likely thought I had some multiple personality disorder or something!

There is always more to learn. There's so much music, why limit oneself?

Peace, Mooh.

To be fair, I don't think my tastes in music where what made me "un-datable", my PDQ Bach tee-shirt notwithstanding. There were so many more reasons.......:smile:

There is so much music, but there isn't nearly enough time......<sigh>

[gramatica]

Does anybody remember the episode of Friends where Phoebe tried to teach Joey how to play guitar?

The claw! The claw!

[fraser]

auto mechanics is a terrible career choice nowadays- i am/was/will likely be one again. its just real hard, stupid, finger busting work, and if your shop is making money, likely you are conning your customers into paying for work thats not necessary. its a very disheartening, hatred filled mess, and you either have to be a really dumb guy, or a totally self absorbed asshat to actually enjoy it.
and as unions disappear and overseas workers appear, your wages will not increase. id tell him to parlay his mechanical experience into millwrighting.

guitar teaching, in my experience, is a really satisfying, healthy, happy and fulfilling thing. but i could never feed the kids when i was doing it.

when i was in high school there where guys who dressed like michael jackson. i kid you not. chicks liked those guys, and the jocks. not the long haired kid with a hendrix t shirt and a guitar. that was really not cool lol. few years later it was tho.

[Mooh]

"The claw! The claw!" gramatica.

I've never actually watched an episode of Friends, but I was in the same room once when the kids watched it. The claw episode, however, has been described to me several times, not least by students using the term! It's funny as hell, though of no musical use.

Lots of folks use a zillion chords they can't name properly. Naming things isn't necessary unless we want to communicate ideas. If the last living human decides to teach himself how to read music, he won't have to name anything, though it'll still be eaiser to remember things if he names them, and does so consistently. For the rest of us, LEARN WHAT THINGS ARE CALLED! (End rant.)

Peace, Mooh.

[gramatica]

If I recall the episode correctly, the claw is the simplest of G chords in the first position!:smile: