Active Speakers tech problem

[FlamesBeyond]

Hello,

I have just bought 2 DB Technologies Twin 128 active speakers (http://www.dbtechnologies.com/mod_produkte.cfm?pid=81&pgid=1&pugid=38&psugid=0) and i happen to interfere some problems. I would really appreciate if i would get some proper feedback and help. Thank You.

Firstly, i connected the speakers to the main out of my mixer (http://www.behringer.com/802/index.cfm?lang=eng). One speaker on the left output and one on the right output via XLR ends plugged in the speakers and jacks plugged in the mixer. The microphone works fine. the voice sounds ok, also if we play some music through they work fine. but when i plugged the guitar amp in the mixer with the guitar connected, i found out that the distortion the drive gets lots and lots of gain, like it's not the sound from amp anymore, it's like a digital cheap distortion. i don't know what's the problem.. maybe the cables .. or ... i really don't know.

I am waiting forward to replies.
Thank you very much
Best Regards

[Paul]

Hello,

I have just bought 2 DB Technologies Twin 128 active speakers (http://www.dbtechnologies.com/mod_produkte.cfm?pid=81&pgid=1&pugid=38&psugid=0) and i happen to interfere some problems. I would really appreciate if i would get some proper feedback and help. Thank You.

Firstly, i connected the speakers to the main out of my mixer (http://www.behringer.com/802/index.cfm?lang=eng). One speaker on the left output and one on the right output via XLR ends plugged in the speakers and jacks plugged in the mixer. The microphone works fine. the voice sounds ok, also if we play some music through they work fine. but when i plugged the guitar amp in the mixer with the guitar connected, i found out that the distortion the drive gets lots and lots of gain, like it's not the sound from amp anymore, it's like a digital cheap distortion. i don't know what's the problem.. maybe the cables .. or ... i really don't know.

I am waiting forward to replies.
Thank you very much
Best Regards

How did you get the signal from your guitar amp to the mixer? Did you put a mic in front of the amp, or did you use an output of some kind from the amp? Tell us what kind of guitar amp you have, and we can give you a better answer.

[FlamesBeyond]

well. i have a cheap frontman 15w and i plugged a standard 2 jack cable from phones to mixer and plugged the guitar in the input of the amp. the amp's drive itself its not bad in comparison with the high gain drive.

Thank you
Regards

[Paul]

well. i have a cheap frontman 15w and i plugged a standard 2 jack cable from phones to mixer and plugged the guitar in the input of the amp. the amp's drive itself its not bad in comparison with the high gain drive.

Thank you
Regards

You are crushing the input of the mixer. The headphone out has too strong a signal for the input of the mixer, and you are completely overdriving the input stage of the mixer.

You have choices:

use a mic in front of the amp into the mixer
use an amp that has a line level output
use a modeling unit, such as a Line 6 Pod or a Vox Tonelab
use a big freakin' 200 Watt amp so you don't need a PA

EDIT: ANOTHER CHOICE:

Use a DI like this:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-RLL%20DB25?SRC=D0407FG0HAMS0000&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=feed&

http://www.americanmusical.com/ProductImages/Large/p2236.jpg

use a 1/4" to 1/4" patchcord to go from the headphone output of the Frontman into the DI box, and a standard XLR mic cord to go from the DI box to the mic input on the Behringer mixer. I'm not convinced that you will love the sound, but you will have an appropriate signal into the mixer. A passive DI like this is a better choice than an equal priced microphone, IMHO.

I have a handful off these Rolls DB25 DI boxes. They sound OK, not great, but OK, and they always work. The can handle an input anywhere from an instrument level signal up to most speaker level signals. They are passive, so no batteries to fail.

good luck

[Balou]

FlamesBeyond, i'm not sure but if it's the headphone output of your amp that you talk about, the signal level is too hight, and the output impedance do not match the input impedance of your mixer. The better way is to mic it like said Paul.
Hope this help.

[FlamesBeyond]

i understand,

the thing is that i intend to buy 2 amps for guitar something like 80 w plus a bass amp, and my strategy is :

the 2 speakers as main out on the mixer ->

- and plug the vocals into the mixer(mainly this is why i bought the speakers)
- then plug the 2 guitar amps into the mixer
- and the bass amp in the mixer

and all the amps to sound themselves like ordinary and on the 2 speakers as well. I need to know if it's ok not to burn something down.

Thanks
Regards.


EDIT:

But would i get the good sound as it should be when i will have a good amp with line out to go directly into mixer? i guess this is the best version, or the one with the mic. ( a good amp with a mic connected)

[Paul]

But would i get the good sound as it should be when i will have a good amp with line out to go directly into mixer? i guess this is the best version, or the one with the mic. ( a good amp with a mic connected)

What sounds good is up to you. Everything is a compromise. You have to find the best solution that you can afford.

But to restate the initial problem: Headphone out into mixer line in = bad sound.

[Balou]

I know some guys that do both, and it's sound good both. The only thing is that when you go with the line out, you amplify the sound coming from the circuitry of the guitar and the amp, not what you ear in front of your amp, because the sound of the speaker is not amplified like with mics. Personnaly i prefer the use of the line out, that generate less noise and if you use 2 amps of 80 watt in the same time, nobody in the audience will see the difference.

[Hamm Guitars]

If I understand you correctly,

you are using these:
http://www.dbtechnologies.com/mod_produkte.cfm?pid=81&pgid=1&pugid=38&psugid=0

Which are 90 watt twin eights (70/20) with an actively crossed horn.

And you want to put 2 ~80watt guitar amps and a bass amp through them as well as vocals?

You would be way better off just using the speakers for vocals and using the instument amps for the instruments (don't try to put them through the PA). One 80 watt guitar amp will drown out two of those PA cabinets without any trouble at all.

[FlamesBeyond]

Yeah, that's what i intend to, i know that the amps only can reach the PA, but i wanted to have the instruments come from the PA as well , so i can have a better balanced sound. This way i can go with fine tunings i got from mixer a bit, and work the master volumes from there as well.

My take is , will they break , burn if i go like this ? with 2 guitar amps, bass and vocals?

Thanks very much Paul and Balou

[Hamm Guitars]

I wouldn't recomend it.

Those speakers have a frequency response spec of only going down to 80hz, so I wouldn't run the bass through them at any kind of volume that will fill a room.

You will be much better off with just vocals and accoustic instruments through them, don't put electric guitars and the bass through them if they allready have their own amps as the over all sound will suffer.

Putting electric guitars in the PA (that have amps) doesn't really make much sense with less than 2000 watts or thereabouts. If you have 600 Watts or more, putting a DI on the bass would make sense if you had the cabinets that would work for it.

[FlamesBeyond]

i do not really understand some things from the speakers description like freq. response , 70+20 W/RMS, 180 W/PRG, Max. SPL: 118 dB , i mean i understand but not fully. Could you explain a bit to me?


So after all there is no way to have at least the quitars through the PA..
The thing is i want that extra sound wave from instruments. Lets say with the 2 PA in front in the two corners left and right and the amps in the middle one left and one right and bass somewere around. That's why i wanted. It gives you more range, close to something like " the same sound everywere, so you can hear it everywere" (well not exactly everywere just with 2 speakers)

Thank you.
Regars

[Paul]

i do not really understand some things from the speakers description like freq. response , 70+20 W/RMS, 180 W/PRG, Max. SPL: 118 dB , i mean i understand but not fully. Could you explain a bit to me?


So after all there is no way to have at least the quitars through the PA..
The thing is i want that extra sound wave from instruments. Lets say with the 2 PA in front in the two corners left and right and the amps in the middle one left and one right and bass somewere around. That's why i wanted. It gives you more range, close to something like " the same sound everywere, so you can hear it everywere" (well not exactly everywere just with 2 speakers)

Thank you.

Regars

To do what you want, you'd need a much bigger PA. How big of a room are you trying to fill, how many people are in that room?

[FlamesBeyond]

i understand, i do not know the exact measurements. it's not to large but not to small. about 30 m , as for people, 5 people

[Paul]

i understand, i do not know the exact measurements. it's not to large but not to small. about 30 m , as for people, 5 people

How many people in the audience, not how many people in the band.

[FlamesBeyond]

No it's nothing about live. We only want this system for rehearsals. So we do not need huge crank of volume. I just want to know if we keep some 80, 100 w amps at lower level i mean at the normal level (at which you can be equal with the drums) it's ok to play without damage, or at least just the guitars through the PA.

[Paul]

No it's nothing about live. We only want this system for rehearsals. So we do not need huge crank of volume. I just want to know if we keep some 80, 100 w amps at lower level i mean at the normal level (at which you can be equal with the drums) it's ok to play without damage, or at least just the guitars through the PA.

For rehearsals, don't even bother with guitar(s) or bass through the PA, it's more trouble than it's worth. All you need is vocals in the monitor system in a rehearsal situation.

Trust us, it'll be better and easier that way.