understanding bass amps

[Vintage_Groove]

I'm not currently in the market for a bass amp, but from time to time I've looked at various websites and I'm trying to learn more about what brand of amps are out there for bass guitar.

I notice some amps are really expensive, while others that look similar are a lot cheaper. Does anyone have a quick list of the pecking order of bass amps and why? I notice a Phil Jones amp will be small and cost a lot, where a Behringer is bigger and costs a lot less.

And at what point should you get a head and cab vs a combo? Why do some heads have EQ (and what does it do) while others seem to have just the bare essentials? And I also see there are tubes, hybrid and solid state (don't know if that's a whole other issue).

Are there amps more suited to rock/metal vs jazz and/or funk?

[james on bass]

Many questions here.

Like anything else, there are many different amps from many manufacturers, from hand made point-to-point wiring amps made by electronic wizards to mass produced amps from China and everything in between.

Hybrid amps are what I like which is solid state power with a tube pre-amp. Tubes, especially an all-tube amp will get you that big fat grinding and/or distorted bass tone. On the other hand, there is something to be said for the growl of a Gallien-Krueger amp, which is completely Solid State.

Play as many different types of amps to find out what it is you like in a tone.

[dr_iggi]

After some testing, for my oldest son, we ended up with a used Ampeg B2-RE and a 2x10 Ashdown cab. The plan is to add a 1x15 later on.

The amp is a combination of solid-state + MOSFET. Nice tone. The EQ section is a nice addition to the basic controls of the amp and can be turned on/off.

My son uses a pedal for overdrive/distortion.

A 1x15 combo amp might work in some applications, but I think that with bass a head + cabs is the best way to go if you think about playing in a band.

[Paul]

After some testing, for my oldest son, we ended up with a used Ampeg B2-RE and a 2x10 Ashdown cab. The plan is to add a 1x15 later on.

The amp is a combination of solid-stated + MOSFET. Nice tone. The EQ section is a nice addition to the basic controls of the amp and can be turned on/off.

My son uses a pedal for overdrive/distortion.

A 1x15 combo amp might work in some applications, but I think that with bass a head + cabs is the best way to go if you think about playing in a band.

If I've been stalking correctly, the post I've just quoted was # 100 000 in a series.

[dr_iggi]

If I've been stalking correctly, the post I've just quoted was # 100 000 in a series.

You win Paul! :-)

[Paul]

You win Paul! :-)

No sir, YOU won, I missed by 3. That's what happens when I step out to satisfy a Dairy Queen jones.

Damn that smartie blizzard!!!!!!

[Fajah]

I agree with James that there are allot of questions here. I can only speak to how I personally go about my decision process. I do so by asking myself the following questions first;

1) What am I using the amp for...practice, small jam sessions, gigging. This addresses power requirements.

2) Is the amp staying put or will you be tranporting it around. This addresses weight and gets you thinking about combos vs. a head/cab setup.

3) Tube, solid state, or hybrid. This addresses maintenance and tonal qualities.

4) What's the budget. This addresses not only how much you want to spend now, but what you might have to spend in the future. It also addresses whether you want to go new or used.

5) Visit reputable stores. Hopefully you'll find sales people who know what they're talking about and tell them your story. Get them to answer some of the above questions. Different stores carry differnet brands so you'll get an education.

6) Use the internet to get more detailed information as to what you're interested in and more importantly, reviews from players.

I'm a firm believer that no matter what you buy, you're going to spend money twice. The first purchase is what you think you need. The second purchase comes after spending allot of time playing. So the bottom line is, get the best bang for your buck with the first purchase because you're going to eventually sell it.

[Hamm Guitars]

I have a totally different spin on bass rigs as a result of being a soundman for the last twenty years or so.

Quite often when (and if) you are playing through a PA, there are high pass filters on all of the channels on the mixing console. More often than not these are engaged on all channels except for the Kick drum, low toms, keyboards (taurus pedals etc) and the bass guitar. This high pass filter rolls off the low frquencies usually at ~ 80hz. Other than the drums, most of the instruments that are not filtered are direct injected (via a DI) rather than mic'ed because the lower the frequency, the more omni-directional it becomes which in turn makes them tend to be prone to feed back through the system.

Some PA setups will use an auxillary send to feed the subs, so that it can be dialed in as needed on the instruments that require it, but what is really important here is that the bass guitar lives in this frequency region.

In any case, the bass guitar is an important fundamental part of the mix, it communicates on a different level than most other instruments -the sensation of feeling it is far more important than mearly hearing it. To me, a good bass player is someone that knows how to play with and move people and to be able to do this effectively you need to have control over the lowest range of frequencies that it produces.

Now, to my point. I hear alot of bass rigs, and I find that the majority of them start rolling off around 65hz, some more sharply than others. In some cases the player compensates for this rolloff with the EQ on the amp, some use the EQ on the bass.

The difference in the frequency response of the players bass rig and the much broader range of the PA system is what creates the problem. The player is now presented with much more low frequency range that they have to control that is not produced by thier bass rig. Some players will actually request that the sub-sonics be 'turned off' simply because they view it as noise that interfears with their 'sound' or ability to 'cut through the mix' - the high pass is usually engaged and the crowd, band and mix all suffer.

There are other bass players that hear the vast abundace of possibilities that the new found subsonic register gives them but don't have any experience in taming it, as they never hear it (feel it actually) when they are practicing or jamming with their band. Things like unmuted open strings, thumping palm mutes, pickup collisions, overtones and feedback usually become an issue. Most of these players will figure out that they need a lower range out of their bass rig to be able to relearn their technique to be able to keep things clean and in control.

Then you have the professional sidemen. They can play the root in quarter notes all night long, and make it a religous experience. The mix is full and lush, people move and have a good time - no one goes home with massive headaches as a result of trying to hammer the bass sound into the guitar players domain... These guys get the good paying gigs, and they are in demand. It is amazing how often I run into the same few bass players that make a living doing nothing else but laying down the carpet.

So, my thing with bass rigs is to get one that resembles a small PA - a good subwoofer and a tweeter with no holes in the midrange. If you are turning up the high end on your bass amp and not hearing any difference, you either don't have a horn or the one you have doesn't work. It takes a fair amount of power (1000 watts is not unreasonable) to do it all cleanly.

Once you've got your control and technique down, you can get by with a little single 10" bass rig that will fit in the back seat of a small car. But relearning is much more work than learning it right the first time.

[Gunny]

Excellent post Hamm.

[Vintage_Groove]

So, my thing with bass rigs is to get one that resembles a small PA - a good subwoofer and a tweeter with no holes in the midrange. If you are turning up the high end on your bass amp and not hearing any difference, you either don't have a horn or the one you have doesn't work. It takes a fair amount of power (1000 watts is not unreasonable) to do it all cleanly.


Any recommendations on existing amps and heads that can provide this level of output? Sounds like you could actually build the cabinet by hand with some good parts. What would you need to make a cabinet like this (wood, speakers, etc.)? What head would work well with it?

[Paul]

Any recommendations on existing amps and heads that can provide this level of output? Sounds like you could actually build the cabinet by hand with some good parts. What would you need to make a cabinet like this (wood, speakers, etc.)? What head would work well with it?

There are a lot of guys who use a rack mounted pre amp for tone shaping, and then a full range solid state power amp, like a Crown. With Crown you can get a lot of Watts per pound, a great consideration when you have to carry your gear up stairs.

[Hamm Guitars]

Any recommendations on existing amps and heads that can provide this level of output? Sounds like you could actually build the cabinet by hand with some good parts. What would you need to make a cabinet like this (wood, speakers, etc.)? What head would work well with it?


Yes, you could build your own cabinet or use existing bass or PA cabinets. PA stuff is pretty cheap right now, so new or used stuff is pretty easy to get your hands on. You can get new 18" subs for just under $300. As always, you can spend more money ang get better quality.

As for a 'head', I would go with something like the following:

http://www.lamusic.ca/default.asp?szNav=Product&PID=13134#

It is a 15 band EQ and a compressor in a single rack space.

If that is a little pricey, check out an ALTO Monitor processor (single 15 band EQ with two notch filters) for about $99 and something like a Behringer or Alto compressor for another $100 or so.

Then add a power amp:
http://www.lamusic.ca/default.asp?szNav=Product&PID=9348

And you are done.

That's a 1000 watt bass head with all of the tonal shaping you could possibly need for just over $500 before taxes if you go with the cheapest Alto/Behringer components. All you need is the cabinets, cables and a rack to mount everything in.

Add a $300 sub and maybe $100 for cables, a horn and a rack and you have a pretty good bass rig for ~$900.00 (+ taxes). I'm not sure that it is worth going used unless you are after better quality components.

[Golem]

Any recommendations
on existing amps and heads that can provide this level of
output? Sounds like you could actually build the cabinet
by hand with some good parts. What would you need to
make a cabinet like this (wood, speakers, etc.)? What
head would work well with it?`

The middle-of-the-road set up would be a solid state head
rated around 400W@4ohm [250W@8ohm] and a 12" cab
with a horn [not a tweeter, unless there's also a midrange
driver as well]. There's heads from G-K, SWR, Peavey,
Fender, etc in this range. Bag End and Genz Benz make
some decent affordable cabs. I see them in use by jazzers
and others who are not "Arena Rock Wannabees". I don't
know the specs. My cabs tend to be scavenger specials.

If you're an actual ARW, expect to spend truckloads of
money, bust your ass hauling your rig, but still sound
like sh*t forever and ever :-(

`