Madonna ?

[GuitarsCanada]

So at an average price of $200 per ticket. The two shows at the ACC would bring in over $6,000,000 in ticket sales alone. The industry sure has changed since I was paying $9.00 to see Rush or Triumph etc etc

[bagpipe]

Yeah, but come on ... its Madonna! Shes much better than Rush or Triumph .... right ??? :smile:





Joking aside, I think most of these artists (or, more likely, their management team) have lost touch with reality. $200 per ticket? Yikes!

[Paul]

I wouldn't pay $200.00 for a concert ticket, not even if JS Bach himself rose from the dead.

That said.....the argument for P2P music sharing is often that sharing music for free will encourage concert ticket and merchandise sales. We can't then complain that the price of those tickets and merchandise have been increased to offset music sales losses because of P2P.

As an audience, all of us have much raised expectations. It used to be enough that a cloth backdrop with the band name in 15 foot letters was enough.....not any more. We have huge expectations for a multimedia show, not just great musicians playing music we love.

How many dancers does Madonna have to employ? How big is the show crew? If you tour with a dance team pushed as hard as Madonna's will be, you have to provide a medical support team too. That ain't cheap. The Stones frequently tour with 3 stages; one being set up, one being used, one being torn down, all in 3 different cities.

When The Stones did the free concert for 200 000+ people in London's Hyde Park after Brian Jones died, the PA had a smokin' 1500 watts per side.

When Entwistle died, his bass rig alone had close to 1500 watts per string!!!!

I saw Madonna in T.O. at Skydome when the cops were threatening to shut the show down on obscenity charges. Not my cup of tea, but there aren't too many performers that work as hard, or at as high a level as Madonna. She put's on as good a show as you will find anywhere.

[GuitarsCanada]

I wouldn't pay $200.00 for a concert ticket, not even if JS Bach himself rose from the dead.

That said.....the argument for P2P music sharing is often that sharing music for free will encourage concert ticket and merchandise sales. We can't then complain that the price of those tickets and merchandise have been increased to offset music sales losses because of P2P.

As an audience, all of us have much raised expectations. It used to be enough that a cloth backdrop with the band name in 15 foot letters was enough.....not any more. We have huge expectations for a multimedia show, not just great musicians playing music we love.

How many dancers does Madonna have to employ? How big is the show crew? If you tour with a dance team pushed as hard as Madonna's will be, you have to provide a medical support team too. That ain't cheap. The Stones frequently tour with 3 stages; one being set up, one being used, one being torn down, all in 3 different cities.

When The Stones did the free concert for 200 000+ people in London's Hyde Park after Brian Jones died, the PA had a smokin' 1500 watts per side.

When Entwistle died, his bass rig alone had close to 1500 watts per string!!!!

I saw Madonna in T.O. at Skydome when the cops were threatening to shut the show down on obscenity charges. Not my cup of tea, but there aren't too many performers that work as hard, or at as high a level as Madonna. She put's on as good a show as you will find anywhere.

All good points, but the two shows in Toronto alone would probably cover the expenses you just mentioned. Putting aside the obvious cut's in that 6m for the promoter, event staff, rent, etc. we are talking a few million in managements pocket for sure on two shows.

[iaresee]

All the power to them for convincing people to pay it. I love a free market society.

:food-smiley-004:

[NB-SK]

I wouldn't pay $200.00 for a concert ticket, not even if JS Bach himself rose from the dead.

That said.....the argument for P2P music sharing is often that sharing music for free will encourage concert ticket and merchandise sales. We can't then complain that the price of those tickets and merchandise have been increased to offset music sales losses because of P2P.

As an audience, all of us have much raised expectations. It used to be enough that a cloth backdrop with the band name in 15 foot letters was enough.....not any more. We have huge expectations for a multimedia show, not just great musicians playing music we love.

How many dancers does Madonna have to employ? How big is the show crew? If you tour with a dance team pushed as hard as Madonna's will be, you have to provide a medical support team too. That ain't cheap. The Stones frequently tour with 3 stages; one being set up, one being used, one being torn down, all in 3 different cities.

When The Stones did the free concert for 200 000+ people in London's Hyde Park after Brian Jones died, the PA had a smokin' 1500 watts per side.

When Entwistle died, his bass rig alone had close to 1500 watts per string!!!!

I saw Madonna in T.O. at Skydome when the cops were threatening to shut the show down on obscenity charges. Not my cup of tea, but there aren't too many performers that work as hard, or at as high a level as Madonna. She put's on as good a show as you will find anywhere.

I beg to differ. It has little to do with P2P. It all started when people actually bought the then astronomically priced tickets for the The Eagles' comeback tour (10 years ago?).

PS. JS Bach: 2008 Bach from the Dead Tour.
Opening act: Skid Row

[Paul]

I beg to differ. It has little to do with P2P. It all started when people actually bought the then astronomically priced tickets for the The Eagles' comeback tour (10 years ago?).

We'll never know how much, but I do believe that touring musicians that are losing revenue due to P2P are finding ways to make up for those losses. I don't think The Eagles have the market on exhorbitant ticket prices. How much were The Three Tenors charging for a stadium show?

André Rieu has a top ticket price of $288.00 AUS for his shows down there. TicketMaster Australia even has a separate transaction so you can buy a ticket for parking in advance, that's another $31.00. His shows in NL are 140.00 Euros at the top price.

My point is that any genre has a lock of fans with too much money to spend.


PS. JS Bach: 2008 Bach from the Dead Tour.
Opening act: Skid Row

I still wouldn't go. I'd need to see PDQ Bach on stage too. I have standards, ya know.

[Hamm Guitars]

I'm not going to try to validate anyone's ticket prices, but consider fuel costs, trucking and travel costs for cast and crew - don't forget accoms, visas and food. Add on all of the production costs, don't forget the local unionized crews, electricians, fire and safety inspections, insurance costs etc. etc. etc.

Add on the cost of the venue, security, the promoter's cut, the ticket agent's cut, the cost of advertising etc, etc, etc.

Those add up to some pretty hefty bills, especially if you are moving 20 or more people around.

[GuitarsCanada]

I'm not going to try to validate anyone's ticket prices, but consider fuel costs, trucking and travel costs for cast and crew - don't forget accoms, visas and food. Add on all of the production costs, don't forget the local unionized crews, electricians, fire and safety inspections, insurance costs etc. etc. etc.

Add on the cost of the venue, security, the promoter's cut, the ticket agent's cut, the cost of advertising etc, etc, etc.

Those add up to some pretty hefty bills, especially if you are moving 20 or more people around.

It still does not add up to me. Say that out of the 3 million dollar take per venue (average of maybe 16,000 tickets sold) if you took 1.5 Million per show to cover expenses, which I would find hard to believe that still leaves 1.5 million for the talent/management. On a 30 stop tour that's 45 million for the talent? This is not including merchandising or any nonsense $100 internet club fees or the outrageous $1500 to $3000 Gold and or Platimum packages. Which, outside of getting you a guaranteed seat within the first 10-20 rows gives you nothing more that a plastic badge and a pair of cheap sunglasses or some other nonsense.

[Paul]

It still does not add up to me. Say that out of the 3 million dollar take per venue (average of maybe 16,000 tickets sold) if you took 1.5 Million per show to cover expenses, which I would find hard to believe that still leaves 1.5 million for the talent/management. On a 30 stop tour that's 45 million for the talent? This is not including merchandising or any nonsense $100 internet club fees or the outrageous $1500 to $3000 Gold and or Platimum packages. Which, outside of getting you a guaranteed seat within the first 10-20 rows gives you nothing more that a plastic badge and a pair of cheap sunglasses or some other nonsense.

The Stones tour in '88 I think it was guaranteed the band $65 million. the band had to play a certain # of performances, and CPI took care of everything else.

20 years of runaway inflation in the entertainment business......$1.5 million for the talent seem plausible. The main vocie talent for The Simpsons are apparently holding out for $500 000.00 each per episode for the upcoming season. The $$ "earned" by some folks in the entertainment business really do seem out of proportion, don't they?

[iaresee]

20 years of runaway inflation in the entertainment business......$1.5 million for the talent seem plausible. The main vocie talent for The Simpsons are apparently holding out for $500 000.00 each per episode for the upcoming season. The $$ "earned" by some folks in the entertainment business really do seem out of proportion, don't they?
Not compared to the amount of money the broadcasters and promoters are making airing and putting those performances on. I'm sure Fox rakes in millions per Simpsons episode in ad revenue. The voice talent just wants their cut. Kelsey Grammar was getting $1.6M/episode for the last season of Fraser. For Fox to pay that means Fox had to be making a helluva lot more than that per episode in ad, merch and syndication revenue. I can't imagine a top show would be run as a loss leader in a portfolio.

I wouldn't put the blame on the performers. They see what the suits are bringing in and they want their cut. The suits don't want to take a loss on their side of the equation so the customers pay more to make everyone happy. As long as people are willing to pay it: it's all good.

[devnulljp]

As an audience, all of us have much raised expectations. It used to be enough that a cloth backdrop with the band name in 15 foot letters was enough.....not any more. We have huge expectations for a multimedia show, not just great musicians playing music we love.That's the thing - the audience has much higher expectations of spectacle not music. The audience wants theatre not music. This is not a music show, it's a song and dance and theatrics show. Danny LaRue on steroids. How many dancers do you need to play the guitar well? I'd go see Jeff Beck play in a barn, as would most of you I suspect. Stick Madonna in the same situation and I'd be surprised if she didn't suck completely. Doubly true for most of the younger performers on that track.

And BTW, these performers are more than making up for whatever perceived loss of revenue to P2P by their pepsi and macy's sponsorships. Rock n roll is long dead, they just won't leave its decomposing corpse alone.

I remember being shocked that the cost of a ticket to see the Rolling Stones was I think £15, which was outrageous in 198?. First concert I went to was Ian Gillan and that cost £3.50. Most expensive was Peter Gabriel at £6. I happily paid $100 to go see John Williams in Osaka a few years ago (no backup dancers though), but was doubly ecstatic to pay $40 to go see David Russell.

[GuitarsCanada]

I can see it with the "major production" type concerts. But these ones that have to have 20 dancers adn 15 wordrobe changes a show are not the only ones. There are some straight up rock n rollers charging some hefty prices as well. I guess, to a certain extent I am looking for a good "show" as well. But for the most part the concerts that I go to are bands and not these solo singers surrounded by 'extras". In that setting I can do without a lot of fireworks etc.

[Hamm Guitars]

When it comes to a show, people hear with their eyes.

Seeing someone play in a barn might work for musicians, but it won't cut it with the general public.

Consider this:

I can work my but off with a three man crew and bring $100,000 worth of gear into a venue. It all has to be loaded in, set up, run the show, get torn down and put back in the truck. No one is getting rich doing this, I loose money if I take a day off my normal day gig to cover a show like this - and I work harder and much longer hours.

Half way through the setup of one of these shows, right around when I am supposed to be going down to eat dinner (the kind that if you miss it, you don't eat) - a guy will walk in with some sort of projector/computer multimedia device. Nine times out of ten, he will have no concept at all of what he is doing and is totally unprepaired and is looking at me with an 1/8" jack in his hand asking me where he should plug in.

He will then insist that the lighting truss has to be moved to accomidate his screen(s) and will start making unrealistic demands on the lighting guy. Mind you this is all after the show has been set up and the lights are all aimed, programmed and ready to go.

It's about at this point when I start looking for someone that is flipping the bill to see if I can get this guy out of my life. Sometimes the money is on-site and is well aware of the work that has gone into getting the show set up thus far, and try to be diplomatic about telling me that we have to accomidate this little multimedia genius.... Other times it will be the "Event Planner" (a whole other rant) that is insistent that this guy should get whatever he needs because he's going to make or break the show...

So the crew misses dinner call, and we are pandering to an idiot who has no clue what he is doing or what he wants - so things get changed five or six times every ten minutes. To make matters worse, it takes the guy an hour to figure out that he can't run his show from the front of house, but he has to be within ten feet of it. This continues until I have no time to take a shower before doors.

The show goes on, the multimedia guy gets his 15 minutes of fame - sometimes their work is impressive, but most of the time it is not. The show finishes - the multimedia guy is no where to be found and his gear is right smack in the middle of everything with the crew struggling to tear down around it. We almost always find out that the guy is backstage in the catering room or at the after party. The light guy will track him down and threaten to beat him to within an inch of his life if he doesn't get his shit off the stage....

I'll go to take care of the money end of things and sometimes the Multimedia guy is there. He looks clean, showered and well fed and he hasn't really done any work since he has been there. More often than not, the cheque that he collects is between three and ten times the amount of the cheque that I collect. He might have ten grand worth of gear, some prep time at home in front of a computer, no experience or knowledge as far as putting on a show, and he doesn't pay anyone to help him - he got my crew to do it for him for free at the expense of our time, dinner, shower and down time.

This used to really burn my ass, and I would often day dream about killing some of these guys until a few years back when a guy that has been around for ages explained the whole 'People hear with their eyes' thing, then the world made sense again.

I try to stay away from big gigs and corporate events because this type of BS rubs me the wrong way - I prefer to mix a loud rock band in some seedy bar over the more so-called 'goog gigs' any day of the week.

This has turned into more of a MM Guy rant than anything to do with the OP - but it was theraputic....

[Geek]

For Madonna? It's not like she's that important :-p

[Spikezone]

So at an average price of $200 per ticket. The two shows at the ACC would bring in over $6,000,000 in ticket sales alone. The industry sure has changed since I was paying $9.00 to see Rush or Triumph etc etc

$200 a ticket?? UGH!! For one of the most sadly overrated 'singers' on the planet? Heck, you can see George Michael in Vancouver for $25-LOL!
-Mikey