Epiphone vs. Gibson

[starvingstudent]

so i have a really stupid question for some of the gurus here.

i have an Epiphone Les Paul Classic that i bought for $499 at GuitarCenter in the states.

i was recently at a local music store here and i saw the Gibson version of my guitar. same finish for $2499.

now my dumb question is. what is the major differences. aside from electronics.

when i played the Gibson i didnt notice a heck of alot in terms of feel difference. for sure a tonal difference. but is that something that i can fix via putting new electronics in my Epiphone?

why is made in the US so much better than a made in China equivalent? even though on the back of my headstock it says 100% inspected and set up in the US.

thanks boys.

[Canadian Charlie]

The name "GIBSON" means it costs more. Epiphone is owned by Gibson

[starvingstudent]

i know Epiphone is owned by Gibson. this is why i asked the question... is there really that much difference?

[Accept2]

Depends on who you ask, as we all look at things differently. I think a Gibson is generally a better buy than an Epiphone, but not always. Yes, there is a difference worth paying for most of the time. Of course with Gibson, sometimes they do have prices that are too much..........

[suttree]

well, while i can't really justify gibson's pricing strategy, the major differences will be: wood quality, fine tolerances in manufacture (yes, i know it's gibson, but this is what they're gonna say at least). the american guitars will be made of larger pieces of higher quality woods, dried slowly and well, and etc.

also, the hardware on USA guitars is still quite a bit better than imports overall (on higher end gibsons, you're getting an aluminum bridge and stoptail, nice pots, bone nut, switchcraft jack plug, grover machine heads, and etc), and the quality control should be better as well. that being said the stuff from korea is getting better all the time, and the difference is shrinking.

[Robert1950]

Not to mention - labour costs.

[bagpipe]

This thread promises to drag on for a while. My opinion? Gibsons are generally better quality than Epihones, though not enough to justify the price difference.

I was looking for the little "guy eating popcorn waiting for the show to start" smiley, but we dont seem to have it on GuitarsCanada. :sport-smiley-002:

[Stratin2traynor]

IMO there is a difference in components and probably the quality of the wood. Does it justify a price difference of $2000...Uhm...No way Jose. I have a Made in Korea Yamaha AES620 that sounds and feels fantastic. The posts were a bit scratchy when I bought it but the tech in the store put in some brand new Diamrzio pots and I've had no issues whatsoever with it. It kinda feels like a cross between and SG and a Les Paul. My point being, made in USA doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

If your Epi feels and plays well, change the pick-ups and electronics (or whatever you think it's lacking and Voila!

There is no way that I would ever pay $2499 for a Gibson Les Paul. 1/2 that maybe.

My $2

[starvingstudent]

IMO there is a difference in components and probably the quality of the wood. Does it justify a price difference of $2000...Uhm...No way Jose. I have a Made in Korea Yamaha AES620 that sounds and feels fantastic. The posts were a bit scratchy when I bought it but the tech in the store put in some brand new Diamrzio pots and I've had no issues whatsoever with it. It kinda feels like a cross between and SG and a Les Paul. My point being, made in USA doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

If your Epi feels and plays well, change the pick-ups and electronics (or whatever you think it's lacking and Voila!

There is no way that I would ever pay $2499 for a Gibson Les Paul. 1/2 that maybe.

My $2

i think im going to go with that... i was thinking DiMarzio PAF Joe and Mo'Joe pickups in the cream colour. the question now is that the pickups are going to cost half the price of the guitar brand new. ha. oh well..

[Stratin2traynor]

There's a lot of stuff that comes up on the forum daily. Be patient and you can get some pretty good deals.

[corailz]

Not to mention - labour costs.

I think your right!!!The labour costs,the wood's quality and some goodies!!
I have an Epiphone Lespaul Standard with Grover tuners (Original) and i put
a pair of GFS Paf 59 vintage original tone and output on...and it's sooooooo
sweet!!!!I like it!!!!
So,the real difference at the end,i think,will be the value!!!

[dwagar]

there's lots of reasons Gibsons cost more, whether it's worth more is really up to you.
A good Epi is a great guitar, if it fits the bill for you, don't sweat the differences.

Diminishing returns, you start to pay a lot more to get a little bit more. Basically everything about a Gibson is better, right from the wood to the electronics, but whether it's $2000 better is a question only you can answer, based on what you want, expect, and can afford.

Same deal with Fender, PRS, etc.

[zontar]

These days I'd look at an Epi and consider upgrading parts--due to the dollar difference. But then I have a Gibson already.

[biggreen]

The value difference is going to vary depending on how picky/esperienced you are and how much disposable money you have to spend. No one can tell you whether it is worth the extra money or not, other than you (or maybe your wife if you have one). Any Gibson is going to be better on most every level than a chinese epiphone and not all the diferences can be fixed by replacing parts, but who cares? Obviously not you, because if you did you wouldn' have to ask. :)

If your Epi satisfies you and you can't feel the difference then that is your answer. And just because the Gibson is better it doesn't mean that the Epiphone sucks, I mean Josh Holmes from QOTSA plays an epi and he is pretty far from sucking.

I know I can feel/hear/see the differences between them easily and I also think that the Gibson is worth the extra cash for someone that is looking for that qualtiy level, having said that my SG is an Epi made in Japan and I don't currently own a Gibson.

[sneakypete]

love my MIJ Epiphone SG, quality is excellent and little wonder...made by FujuGen.

[Milkman]

This thread promises to drag on for a while. My opinion? Gibsons are generally better quality than Epihones, though not enough to justify the price difference.



That about sums it up for me.

[Robert1950]

Diminishing returns, you start to pay a lot more to get a little bit more. Basically everything about a Gibson is better, right from the wood to the electronics, but whether it's $2000 better is a question only you can answer, based on what you want, expect, and can afford.

+1. Bingo. Just like professional sports in a way. What does a runner have to do to shave that .1 sec. off his 100 metre dash? A lot more than the previous .1 seconds. In this case it may make the difference, as with some guitarists - that wee bit that makes that tone better for them.

[NB-SK]

love my MIJ Epiphone SG, quality is excellent and little wonder...made by FujuGen.

See, I told you they are great.

[RIFF WRATH]

I have a Korean Eppi LP fit & finish is excellent and I bought it used.
tuners have been upgraded as well as the pickups to standard Gibsons. I sure like it and of my various guitars visiting players pick it up , prefer it, and play with a grin on their faces. I got an excellent deal from a GC member, and I don't give a flying fluff what its worth because it's not for sale. thats as close an answer as I can give. If I really, really had to have a Gibson, then I'd have an empty space in my guitar rack until I won the lottery...lol...
cheers
Gerry

[Diablo]

A gibson will be better all around in most cases, but the only guarantee is the increased bragging rights, and desirability to thieves.

I'm amazed at how many people care about this age-old question that end up throwing a pair of EMG's into it and plugging into a high gain OD pedal going into a cranked dual recto.

Play what you like.

[Archer]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/Archeroffish/epigib.jpg

[Maxer]

Ahhh, the common rabble... getting it wrong, as usual.

(;->))

[devnulljp]

Anyoen ever had/played an old Epi from the 50s/60s? Care to compare with the newer ones? Where were they made originally? Wasn't it NYC, then they sneaked (snuck??) them offshore without telling anyone...where did they go? Japan? Korea? Russia? I'd be interested in an old Sheraton to go with the 335.

[dwagar]

Yes, NYC.

Doing a quick browse through the book "Gibson Guitars - 100 years of an American Icon" by Carter, here's some notes
- up to WWII, Epiphone was Gibson's largest competitor
- Epi himself died in '43 of lukemia. He was a 3rd generation luthier. His brothers took over Epiphone, but it never recovered from losing Epi.
- after the war, Gibson introduced the cutaway, really increasing their market share.
- Epi offered to sell Gibson their bass division (upright basses back then), when the deal was finally put together in '57, Gibson found out they had bought the whole guitar production, rights to use the name, etc. Had Gibson not bought it, Epiphone would have died right then.
- McCarty redesigned the line and brought it back in force for 1958.
- they kept the price of Epiphone slightly under Gibson, keeping Gibson as their high end.
- the 60's saw a surge of guitar buying, but the market cut in 1/2 by the end of the 60's. Epiphone sales dropped from 20% of production to 7%.
- they were also fighting cheaper guitars from offshore.
- in '69 they moved Epiphone to Japan. They didn't 'sneak' the line offshore, they did it to keep Epiphone competitive and alive.

[Robert1950]

My dates may be off by a year or two, but here you go:

I believe 1969 was the last year of production for Epiphone in the USA. They moved to Japan in 1970. Around the time Norlin sold Gibson to Mr. J., they ceased Japanese production (1983-84). In 1986, they started making Epiphones in Korea. The guitars from Japan period are sort of in between the Korean and American in quality.

They also used the Epi names a bit loosely. The US Riviera is an ES335 style guitar with mini-hums and a frequensator tail piece. In the early to mid 70s, it was still a 335 style, but with full HBs, a stop tail and a bolt on neck. In the late 70s, it regained the the frequensator tail piece, still had full HBs and a set neck. In the early 80s, the tail piece went back to stop tail. It was hard dating these since the serial #s were on stickers. They rarely survived - I've only seen one on the internet with an intact sticker. I had a particular interest (see below) in this period so I researched it

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/957740614_ed381f8cee.jpg

[starvingstudent]

i didnt know that. i just thought like OLP vs. Ernie Ball or Fender vs. Squire it was their lower line stuff.. i didnt know they were the main competitor for Gibson. good info boys!:food-smiley-004:

[zontar]

Yes, NYC.

Doing a quick browse through the book "Gibson Guitars - 100 years of an American Icon" by Carter, here's some notes


Hmm--I just started reading that book--I'm in the transition from the mandolin era to the banjo era.

Your Epiphone outline matches what I've read in other books as well. They also made some Epis in Kalamazoo--at first next door to the Gibsons--and there was borrowing of parts between the two.

[Milkman]

A gibson will be better all around in most cases, but the only guarantee is the increased bragging rights, and desirability to thieves.

I'm amazed at how many people care about this age-old question that end up throwing a pair of EMG's into it and plugging into a high gain OD pedal going into a cranked dual recto.

Play what you like.

I'm surprised how many people think that putting EMGs in a guitar is somehow a negative thing.

In my opinion they're a big step up from stock Gibson or Epi pickups.

[Maxer]

Milkman, I don't have direct experience myself to judge, but what I've most commonly read from people who don't care for EMGs is that they may readily project more but lack colour and come off rather cold.

But you know how subjective all this stuff is. As Diablo says, "play what you like."

[Budda]

I prefer gibson to epiphone. why? they feel more solid, they sound better, more comfortable, better balance, and I can get another gibson LP studio for $900 in good condition - whats not to like?

I paid $1500 for my les paul. I dont regret it. I prefer my studio over the gibson standard model, because it feels and suits me and my tastes better.

Gibson makes better guitars then epiphone, as mentioned. Epiphones also cost much less, as mentioned.

is it worth it? up to you.. as mentioned (lol couldnt resist)

[Maxer]

I'm sure most honest folks would prefer Gibson over Epiphone. It's merely financial considerations that come into play. Some people have more dough and therefore more options available to them... they can go that extra mile.

[Milkman]

Milkman, I don't have direct experience myself to judge, but what I've most commonly read from people who don't care for EMGs is that they may readily project more but lack colour and come off rather cold.

But you know how subjective all this stuff is. As Diablo says, "play what you like."

In my opinon guitarists are among the worst for repeating what they have read as opposed to forming their own opinions based on first hand experiece.

But that's another thread I suppose.

[starvingstudent]

In my opinon guitarists are among the worst for repeating what they have read as opposed to forming their own opinions based on first hand experiece.

But that's another thread I suppose.

ha. I'm a former moderator on a golf forum and you should hear what some people say about the equipment they try. its like they're regergitating what they read in a golfdigest magazine

[Maxer]

True enough. Another one that kills me is the all-important quest for "tone..." as if that term meant the same thing for everyone. And we know it sure as hell doesn't! It gets kind of ethereal and mystical sometimes, just trying to follow the thread...

[fraser]

True enough. Another one that kills me is the all-important quest for "tone..." as if that term meant the same thing for everyone. And we know it sure as hell doesn't! It gets kind of ethereal and mystical sometimes, just trying to follow the thread...

lol yup the quest for tone- i could never afford to join that crusade. but i like how eric clapton decided to strip all the tone from his sound after cream- yet still sound good. i read an interview years ago, and he said anybody can sound good with a les paul and a marshall stack, give em a strat and a champ and then youll really hear how they play. im not a big clapton fan, but i like the way he was thinking back then.

[Robert1950]

True enough. Another one that kills me is the all-important quest for "tone..." as if that term meant the same thing for everyone. And we know it sure as hell doesn't! It gets kind of ethereal and mystical sometimes, just trying to follow the thread...

This guy has ended his quest for tone. The forumites on the Les Paul Forum on their 17th Historic on their umphteen set of Voodoo or Tom Holmes pickups will be so envious that he has found the tone.

http://www.seasicksteve.com/belladrum2006.htm

If you think the first guitar in this vid is heaven, you should hear the second one !

[Robert1950]

Oh,... and here is a picture of tone heaven:

http://www.seasicksteve.com/Pictures/002.jpg

[Maxer]

Yep... that's pretty definitive, all right. Excuse me, I have to go burn all my guitars for firewood... then chop off my hands.

Seasick Steve doesn't sound half-bad. Love what he can do with that old guitar of Sherman's. What make is it, I wonder?