Cable directionality?

[devnulljp]

OK, I know Eric Johnson is a tone freak and can tell the difference in sound due to the type of grout used in the bathroom of the shop next door to the gig...if the lights are left on, but I just read a little thing about plugging your cable in the other way round (swapping amp and guitar ends) and how it supposedly sounds different. That doesn't make any sense to me -- didn't someone here mention cables with direction arrows on them? What is this? Corksniffery gone wild or am I missing something? I'm a molecular biologist but I have studied some basic physics, and I can't think if anything that would make a difference. I also can't hear a difference (kinda embarrassing, but yes I tried it).
So, what's the deal? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Here's the article (http://www.custom-sounds.com/epages/customsounds.storefront/4805997008deeff8274159fa3d3d0682/UserTemplate/49)

[Geek]

Hi,

To hear the difference, you have to tie your cable into secret sigils and play while standing on one foot at the peak of the new moon :wink:

It's called audiophool B.S. and because there's an article on it, means it'll end up in the canons of "must do or you're a fool!" in roughly six months :D

Cheers!

[devnulljp]

Hi,

To hear the difference, you have to tie your cable into secret sigils and play while standing on one foot at the peak of the new moon :wink:

It's called audiophool B.S. and because there's an article on it, means it'll end up in the canons of "must do or you're a fool!" in roughly six months :D

Cheers!

Ha!

I wonder what would happen if you put the coat-hanger in the other way round (http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger)?
It sounds like bs to me too. But I'm sure it really all depends on the colour of your socks and the type of detergent used...James Randi (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-bullshit/james-randi-offers-1-million-if-audiophiles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables-are-better-305549.php) here I come.

[Paul]

Some of the Planet Waves cables have signal flow arrows. I know a guy who can tell the difference between forwards and backwards. Seriously, he's blindfolded, and we're doing our best to screw him up, and he can tell the difference.

I cannot.

With balanced cables, sometimes the ground is lifted at one end of the cable. In that case is does matter which end is which. You can get better hum rejection with the ground lifted at the mixer end, not the mic end.

[Wheeman]

You've got it all wrong. Its the outlets that you plugin that make the difference. Something like this will fix everything. (http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina44.htm)

[Mooh]

What kind of tinfoil do I need to line my hat with, is everyday garden variety Alcan okay?

Try living next door to a construction site, cable direction won't mean a thing, after the ear plugs go in.

Peace, Mooh.

[Hamm Guitars]

Audio does not flow through cables - electrons do and they behave in a very predictable way. I can't see any way to make a cable one way without using a semi-conductor of some type. (Like a preamp at one end embeded in the jack)

The directional flow arrows are likely to help in trouble shooting problems with a complicated setup, so you can see at a glance which way the signal flow goes. If you plug them in the other way around, they will still work, but the troble shootng help is gone.

If you ever look at a passive DI, they usually have an in (from instrument) and a through (to amplifier) - these two 1/4" jacks are actually tied together in parallel and it doesn't matter which one you plug into - the markings are to make it easier to follow signal flow if you run into a problem.

OK, I know Eric Johnson is a tone freak and can tell the difference in sound due to the type of grout used in the bathroom of the shop next door to the gig...if the lights are left on, but I just read a little thing about plugging your cable in the other way round (swapping amp and guitar ends) and how it supposedly sounds different. That doesn't make any sense to me -- didn't someone here mention cables with direction arrows on them? What is this? Corksniffery gone wild or am I missing something? I'm a molecular biologist but I have studied some basic physics, and I can't think if anything that would make a difference. I also can't hear a difference (kinda embarrassing, but yes I tried it).
So, what's the deal? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Here's the article (http://www.custom-sounds.com/epages/customsounds.storefront/4805997008deeff8274159fa3d3d0682/UserTemplate/49)

[Milkman]

Funny thread.

Now I know what to do with all those extra coat hangers.

Maybe I can sell them as relic'd audio cables.

[devnulljp]

The directional flow arrows are likely to help in trouble shooting problems with a complicated setup, so you can see at a glance which way the signal flow goes.

Now, that's a good explanation for the arrows.

Paul, have you tried swapping the cables entirely with the guy that can hear directionality? Blindfolded, can he still hear a difference if you plug in a standard Whirlwind cable? What about different cables with the arrows (swap between two or more, plugged in the same orientation)? I wonder if it's like a Clever Hans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans) thing, where you're subconsciously providing cues that he's picking up on because you know which way round the cable goes. Do the cable swap blind. Or have someone else entirely do the cable swapping. Would make for an interesting psychological study (or physiological, if he'd let us dissect his ears).

Mind you, I saw a video where Eric Johnson said he took the trem rout cover off the back of the guitar because it sounded better -- but he sounded kinda embarrassed saying it. And the fuzz face sounds better with the screw removed. But I can't tell whether he does or doesn't like Duracell batteries--even I can hear a difference in a Ge fuzz pedal with alkaline vs. regular cheapie batteries (the cheapies sound better).

[Paul]

Paul, have you tried swapping the cables entirely with the guy that can hear directionality? Blindfolded, can he still hear a difference if you plug in a standard Whirlwind cable? What about different cables with the arrows (swap between two or more, plugged in the same orientation)? I wonder if it's like a Clever Hans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans) thing, where you're subconsciously providing cues that he's picking up on because you know which way round the cable goes. Do the cable swap blind. Or have someone else entirely do the cable swapping. Would make for an interesting psychological study (or physiological, if he'd let us dissect his ears).

It wasn't a pure science test, but he could not see what we were doing. He was on the other side of the room. It was always a Planet Waves 20' cable that we randomly pulled off of the shelf. We'd plug in, play a cord, and tell him which way it was. We'd then quickly unplug and replug, and play the same cord. They guy playing also didn't know which way the cord was going. Sometimes it'd be 4 times in a row the same direction. It was as random and blind as we could make it.

I know it makes no sense whatsoever, but I was there, and he could do it repeatedly with better than 90% accuracy. I know another guy who can identify the colour of smarties by taste. He occasionally gets confused by the light and dark brown ones.....but the other colours are 100%. Again, I've been in the room when he shows off. Weird stuff.

[RIFF WRATH]

Paul...........whatever it is that you guys are taking I want some of it.......asside from gettin the munchies and spending a whole lot of time switching cords around.............maybe the coat hanger thing is the way to go.......lol
Gerry

[devnulljp]

It wasn't a pure science test, but he could not see what we were doing. He was on the other side of the room. It was always a Planet Waves 20' cable that we randomly pulled off of the shelf. We'd plug in, play a cord, and tell him which way it was. We'd then quickly unplug and replug, and play the same cord. They guy playing also didn't know which way the cord was going. Sometimes it'd be 4 times in a row the same direction. It was as random and blind as we could make it.

I know it makes no sense whatsoever, but I was there, and he could do it repeatedly with better than 90% accuracy. I know another guy who can identify the colour of smarties by taste. He occasionally gets confused by the light and dark brown ones.....but the other colours are 100%. Again, I've been in the room when he shows off. Weird stuff.

That's pretty weird - I wonder if these guys are borderline synaesthetes or something. Let's dissect one and see what we can find...you get the saw and I'll bring the ether. Put some plastic down.

[zontar]

You've got it all wrong. Its the outlets that you plugin that make the difference. Something like this will fix everything. (http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina44.htm)

Now that's funny!

[Paul]

That's pretty weird - I wonder if these guys are borderline synaesthetes or something. Let's dissect one and see what we can find...you get the saw and I'll bring the ether. Put some plastic down.

Dexter????

[devnulljp]

Dexter????

Nah. Just my first reaction as an Evil Super Scientist (TM).
http://collegeplanningspecialist.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/mad-scientist.jpg

[eVITAERC]

Some good quality cables have the shield connected to signal ground on only one end of the cable. That should be plugged into which ever side has the lowest impedance. With some cables such as some Planet Waves this could mean the difference between dead quiet town and hum city.

[CocoTone]

You guys shoudn't be so narrow-minded. It works, and makes a big diff in tone, but if your happy with your tone, who cares??

CT.

[Wild Bill]

Some good quality cables have the shield connected to signal ground on only one end of the cable. That should be plugged into which ever side has the lowest impedance. With some cables such as some Planet Waves this could mean the difference between dead quiet town and hum city.

For a guitar cable, this just can't work!

Within an amp or even inside a panel it is usual practice to only ground one end of a shielded cable. However, this is because there is always a common ground return point somewhere. Grounding only at one end eliminates the chance of th ground return having more than one path forming a "loop". This can actually INCREASE hum!

A guitar is outside of the amp. It needs a complete circuit to send signal. You need a "hot" signal lead AND a continuous ground return!

Having a guitar cable with a ground only at one end would work about as well as removing the negative cable from your car battery. In other words, not at all!

:food-smiley-004:

[sysexguy]

In these cables, the ground is conducted along with the signal on a pair of conductors (wire) inside the cable however the shield that surrounds the conductors is only connected at the end that has the lowest impedance.

I used to be very skeptical, tried 'em and now use high end cables whenever possible...the jury's still out on mic cables as they tend to a) couple with mic, changing resonance, and b) weigh the mount such that the placement is compromised.

please note that I haven't given any of my hard earned cash to stadium owning mega corps with armies of lawyers :mad:nor do I suggest anyone do the same.

Andy

[devnulljp]

So, sounds like we're still in the land of voodoo and homeopathy of unsubstantiated claims and adherents on both sides?
Cool.
I'm going to start using coathangers instead...

[sysexguy]

whatever you do, don't put clothes you cherish on those metal coat hangers

Andy

[devnulljp]

whatever you do, don't put clothes you cherish on those metal coat hangers

Andy
I was thinking about this:http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8715/gorillacoathanger241007kx0.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gorillacoathanger241007kx0.jpg)

[Vincent]

Buddy must have some sensitive hearing...i doubt I could tell the difference.

[Jim Jones]

Wow, right now I'm almost glad I have tinnitus. :)

Jim

[User_X]

I have given up debating what other people can hear, almost:smile:

But isn't audio signal AC? Doesn't the signal 'flow' both ways to generate the required signal voltage? Maybe decades of electric theory is not relevant to audio perception...see I can't quite leave it alone.:rolleyes: