thumbs up for attenuators

[dwagar]

I bought a used Hotplate from Tri99er on here a few days ago, got to use it at a gig Friday night.

I've owned my '84 JCM800 for maybe 15 years. In all that time I've been running with the volume at about 1 1/2 (I think the highest I ever had it was about 3 at an outdoor gig), and have been compensating with preamp gain.

So when the opportunity came up to get a good deal on here, I thought it was about time to try one.

Unbelievable. This is absolutely the best my Marshall has ever sounded. I think this was the first gig I've never kicked an overdrive pedal. My volume controls were all I needed to go from crunchy rhythm to overdriven Marshall lead.

If anyone is using an all tube amp that you cannot turn up, you really should invest in one of these. IMO, even before you buy pedals.

[tri99er]

Glad you got some good use out of it. :rockon2:

[riffboy76]

I've been debating on getting one of these for some recording. Any draw backs in using one of these?

[NB-SK]

Yeah, that's my next 'big' purchase. Just curious, what should I get for a 100 watt amp? I'm interested in the ones Weber makes, but I'm open to suggestions.

[dwagar]

The one I got from Tri99er was a good price, a THD Hotplate, and it was just like new. (Thanks man!)

There aren't any drawbacks that I know of, except your tubes probably won't last as long, since the amp is now running full tilt - as if you are playing at that high volume all the time.

You'll have to adjust your tone a bit too. I don't know if it's a small tonal change through the attenuator, or if there would be that same tonal change if you could ever play that loud.

From what I've read on the Hotplates, they will handle up to 185 watts.

With all the money I spend on gear, I can't believe I waiting this long to get one.

Make sure you make your speaker (ohms) decisions first. My JCM800 is a Canadian version, so I didn't have a 16 ohm option. I'm running 2 2x12 16 ohm cabs, so I'm coming back to the head at the 8 ohms it needs, and then needed an 8 ohm Hotplate.

Note: if you can use 16 ohms, have a look at Musicians Friend. They currently have the Gibson branded Hotplates, only in 16 ohm, on sale at $149. Best price I've ever seen, but I couldn't use 16 ohms.

[ne1roc]

I use a Weber Mass 100 with my Legacy. It's very good but I still prefer the tone of my amp without it. I would love to try The THD Hotplate to see if its any better. Both units get great reviews but I find more guys use the Hotplate, maybe because of availability? The great thing about the Weber is the ability to use it with 4,8 or 16 ohm amps!

[traynor_garnet]

I've been debating on getting one of these for some recording. Any draw backs in using one of these?

They work ok on the lowest settings of attenuation but they still impact your tone a little bit. The more attenuation the worse they sound.

Typically, they can kill your dynamics and take all the "body" out of your sound. They also make your amp sound like it has more distortion (almost like you are using a dirt pedal with your amp). If you like to ride your guitar's volume knob to go from clean to dirty sounds, an attenuated amps doesn't clean up as well.

They are quite good for taking your stage volume down a little bit, but if you need lots of attenuation you are better off using a smaller amp or pedals.

Just my experience having owned a THD Hotplate, Weber Mass, and Weber minimass.

TG

[riffboy76]

Most of my amps are < 15 watts so that isnt an issue, however still too loud to jam at home or recording.

traynor_garnet: of the 3 you have tried did you notice a major difference between them? Which would you recommend?

[dwagar]

Typically, they can kill your dynamics and take all the "body" out of your sound. They also make your amp sound like it has more distortion (almost like you are using a dirt pedal with your amp). If you like to ride your guitar's volume knob to go from clean to dirty sounds, an attenuated amps doesn't clean up as well.


Hmm, that's strange, I actually found the same or perhaps even better dynamics, pick attack, etc, and my JCM800 cleaned up really well with a volume roll off.
keep in mind, you're driving the amp as if you are running at (or close to) full volume, so you are getting OT distortion, which is of course the point of using it.

thinking about it, I would guess that, like everything, different amps would react differently. They are for tube amps only, but perhaps diode assisted gain may not sound as good as straight tube? (eg, my JTM60)
I'd love to try a cranked Twin with one of these.

[ne1roc]

They work ok on the lowest settings of attenuation but they still impact your tone a little bit. The more attenuation the worse they sound.

Typically, they can kill your dynamics and take all the "body" out of your sound. They also make your amp sound like it has more distortion (almost like you are using a dirt pedal with your amp). If you like to ride your guitar's volume knob to go from clean to dirty sounds, an attenuated amps doesn't clean up as well.

They are quite good for taking your stage volume down a little bit, but if you need lots of attenuation you are better off using a smaller amp or pedals.

Just my experience having owned a THD Hotplate, Weber Mass, and Weber minimass.

TG

How do you compare the THD to the Weber Mass? Did any of these two affect tone less?

[riffboy76]

+1 I'd love to know too...there is quite the price difference between the 2.

[Spikezone]

I've got a real 'antique' one that I don't use anymore. It's called an 'Altair Power Attenuator PW-5'. It worked well with my old Marshall tonewise, but I found that it seemed to put an absolute ceiling on the dB's my speakers were putting out, so there was nothing I could do to get a volume boost for soloing. Are the newer attenuators like PowerBrakes and HotPlates the same? I'll never need one again, but I was just curious. Thanx,
-Mikey

[NB-SK]

I use a Weber Mass 100 with my Legacy. It's very good but I still prefer the tone of my amp without it. I would love to try The THD Hotplate to see if its any better. Both units get great reviews but I find more guys use the Hotplate, maybe because of availability? The great thing about the Weber is the ability to use it with 4,8 or 16 ohm amps!

I'm interested in the Weber Mass 100, actually. How much could it handle?

[traynor_garnet]

How do you compare the THD to the Weber Mass? Did any of these two affect tone less?

I owned the units at different times and used them with different amps so I've never been able to do a direct a/b comparison.

I used my Hotplate with a Tweed Champ. It allowed me to crank the amp in my apartment but at high levels of attenuation it doesn't sound that great; you are better off just using a pedal. The unit is fairly transparent for the first couple of clicks of attenuation but after that it becomes quite noticeable. I also tried a late 70s Hiwatt DR 504 with it with the same general impression.

I used the Weber mass with an early Traynor Bassmaster. The THD sounded better at doing very high levels of attenuation but it could be amp dependent; neither sounded "good" at these settings. In general, the Mass was very similar to the Hotplate: good at low levels of attenuation but getting progressively worse. Considering the price and ability to use with different ohm settings, the Weber is the better deal.

The Weber mini mass was my least favourite. It totally robbed the high end of my signal (I actually thought something was wrong with it until I spoke with Ted Weber). They now come with a treble boost switch but I have read that it sounds unnatural. Avoid.


I would really like to try a Weber Mass Lite because it has separate controls for attenuating the lows and highs; I think leaving the high end less attenuated would keep myamps' "sparkle" will killing so of the low end volume. I would also like to try an Ultimate Attenuator but I've been scared by a few bad stories.

In sum, if you need to reduce stage volume "a bit" these are handy tools. If you are looking to play at bedroom levels save your money.

TG

[ne1roc]

I'm interested in the Weber Mass 100, actually. How much could it handle?

The Mass 100 is made for amps up to 100 watts. They have other models if you need more.

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm


I believe Traynor meant the MassIII when he mentioned controlling bass and treble. This sounds like a great feature. I like Traynor also use my attenuator for taming stage volume and it does work very well. I chose the Weber over THD because i felt it was better value with more features. Both units seem to get equal good reviews. Here is a great article from lengendary tones comparing the two units.

http://www.legendarytones.com/weberma.html

[traynor_garnet]

I believe Traynor meant the MassIII when he mentioned controlling bass and treble. This sounds like a great feature.

Nope, I was referring to this: https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/masslite.htm

I had not heard of the Mass III but it certainly looks interesting. Hopefully he will soon post more info.

TG

[55 Jr]

They work ok on the lowest settings of attenuation but they still impact your tone a little bit. The more attenuation the worse they sound.

Typically, they can kill your dynamics and take all the "body" out of your sound. They also make your amp sound like it has more distortion (almost like you are using a dirt pedal with your amp). If you like to ride your guitar's volume knob to go from clean to dirty sounds, an attenuated amps doesn't clean up as well.

They are quite good for taking your stage volume down a little bit, but if you need lots of attenuation you are better off using a smaller amp or pedals.

Just my experience having owned a THD Hotplate, Weber Mass, and Weber minimass.

TG

Mine is quite the opposite.

I tried the Weber mini MASS. Cool unit with a Top Hat Portly Cadet.

I own a Dr Z Airbrake and a 16 ohm hotplate. Both are amazing. No Issue with dynamics or body. The amps clean up well lowering the guitars volume.

I use the Hotplate with the 65amps SoHo and the 'Brake with the Vibrolux.

They are a huge part of my sound.

Unless the pedal is a Soldano GTO I will take an attenuator and a SoHo at low volumes any day.

This whole "alters the tone" thing about attenuators is way over blown. Sure the amp sounds different at high attenuation.......but it's damn subtle and really of little consequence.

In my experience, sharing a stage with a hack guitarist who plays too fu@kin loud does more to alter you tone than any attenuator ever could.

As always YMMV

Best regards,

Brian

[ne1roc]

I own a Dr Z Airbrake and a 16 ohm hotplate. Both are amazing. No Issue with dynamics or body. The amps clean up well lowering the guitars volume.

I use the Hotplate with the 65amps SoHo and the 'Brake with the Vibrolux.



I would love to try the Dr Z! Have you a/b'd between the two units on the same amp? Any preference?

[55 Jr]

I would love to try the Dr Z! Have you a/b'd between the two units on the same amp? Any preference?

I think the 'Brake is a little more transparent...............but if I had to pick a favorite it would be the THD.

Best regards,

Brian

[traynor_garnet]

Mine is quite the opposite.

Unless the pedal is a Soldano GTO I will take an attenuator and a SoHo at low volumes any day.

This whole "alters the tone" thing about attenuators is way over blown. Sure the amp sounds different at high attenuation.......but it's damn subtle and really of little consequence.

In my experience, sharing a stage with a hack guitarist who plays too fu@kin loud does more to alter you tone than any attenuator ever could.

As always YMMV

Best regards,

Brian

Brian,

How much are you attenuating your amps? As I wrote in my post, at stage volumes using just a bit of attenuation these are valuable tools. It seems this is the way you are using your attenuators.

At high levels of attenuation (apartment levels), however, I really disagree with your statement that the sound change is "damn subtle and really of little consequence."

TG

[dwagar]

I was running my Hotplate at -16dB, didn't leave me with quite enough overhead so I had to switch to -12dB.
But, this is with a 50 watt Marshall, so we aren't talking bedroom volumes, we're talking small club gig level.

As TG said, it might be quite different trying to get to bedroom levels. IMO there are a lot of other factors at play there too, a small amp and a pedal is probably a better choice for home. At home I use my JTM60 with the Master Vol dialed off, let the diodes pretend we're loud.

But with the JCM800 at gig levels, I found the dynamics etc were just great. Yes, I had to tweak the tone a bit (actually I think all I did was hit the Bright switch), but I'd bet if I was playing somewhere (I can't imagine where) that I could dime this amp I'd have to tweak the tone anyway. So the Hotplate may just be delivering the tone that I would normally have at that kind of volume. But as 55Jr said above, it's not a big deal.