suggestions to change tubes on peavey 6506+

[reco46]

My son wants to possibly change out the tubes in his 6506+. He's heard alot of the bigger bands that use this head swap the stock tubes out. We are tube virgins!
He would like to achieve a more natural distortion from this beast. He has a boss me-50 that he uses to get his distorted sound on the clean channel, and its a pretty good tone, but cant seem to even get close with the amps own distortion. (lead channel).Which is what he wants.

He bought this thing on credit (his parents credit card) that is and one of his favourite bands Chrimera uses these heads. Personally I dont believe for a minute Van Halen used these amp, other then stage props - his marshalls were behind the Peaveys, not to knock the amp though. He's starting to get a bit bummed out over the sound, and I think he maybe inside thinks he shoud've went for the Marshall, we wanted him to get. He bought a boss EQ hoping that may help and it does a little bit, but not enough.

OK the amp has 612AX7 pre amp tubes and 4 6L6GC power amp tubes.
What would be good recomendation to replace these with? Like I said - we dont know one tube from the other. Do tubes mostly have to be ordered? Long and Maquades?

How much would it cost roughly to buy 10 tubes?

Also would any Peavey dealer be able to bias them? We live in Kitchener and have 2 peavey dealers. One I know for sure does warranty work -Sherwoods. We would also go to TO if need be. Please offer any advice you can give. My kids spends $2000 on his supposed dream set up and may not even like it. An EMO 16 yr. old is hard enough to deal with!
Thanks in advance.

[Wild Bill]

My son wants to possibly change out the tubes in his 6506+. He's heard alot of the bigger bands that use this head swap the stock tubes out. We are tube virgins!
He would like to achieve a more natural distortion from this beast. He has a boss me-50 that he uses to get his distorted sound on the clean channel, and its a pretty good tone, but cant seem to even get close with the amps own distortion. (lead channel).Which is what he wants.

He bought this thing on credit (his parents credit card) that is and one of his favourite bands Chrimera uses these heads. Personally I dont believe for a minute Van Halen used these amp, other then stage props - his marshalls were behind the Peaveys, not to knock the amp though. He's starting to get a bit bummed out over the sound, and I think he maybe inside thinks he shoud've went for the Marshall, we wanted him to get. He bought a boss EQ hoping that may help and it does a little bit, but not enough.

OK the amp has 612AX7 pre amp tubes and 4 6L6GC power amp tubes.
What would be good recomendation to replace these with? Like I said - we dont know one tube from the other. Do tubes mostly have to be ordered? Long and Maquades?

How much would it cost roughly to buy 10 tubes?

Also would any Peavey dealer be able to bias them? We live in Kitchener and have 2 peavey dealers. One I know for sure does warranty work -Sherwoods. We would also go to TO if need be. Please offer any advice you can give. My kids spends $2000 on his supposed dream set up and may not even like it. An EMO 16 yr. old is hard enough to deal with!
Thanks in advance.

As a tech, I just don't buy the idea that different brands of tubes have dramatically different tone. Small differences in gain maybe, but not tone. You will never hear a real tech make this claim. You will hear guys who sell tubes and guys who want you to think they're some kind of guru make this claim. Blindfold them while someone ELSE switches tubes and I've never heard of one passing the test!

Mind you , there are tubes of crappy quality but if you're buying EH's, JJ's, most of the Sovteks, TungSol and a lot of others you should be fine.

As for the amp's own distortion, it simply may not be designed for his taste! Or it could be the settings. I'm not much of a player but hopefully someone with experience will jump into the thread and give you some advice in that department.

What might be a good idea is if there's a warranty tech handy take the amp in and have him quickly check the screen resistors on the output tubes. Peaveys are notorious for having problems with these resistors. I had to replace one on a brand new amp! They look fine but go wide open inside so there's no voltage at all at the screen pin. This means the tube is running in triode mode, with way less gain. This unbalances all the other tubes and makes for a harsher distortion, not to mention with one tube loafing the others have to do more than their share of work and burn out sooner.

The resistors are 100 ohm, 5 watt. They look like a long white rectangular body and are on the circuit board for the output tube sockets. Of course, they are underneath but it's easy to get that board out, after you remove the screws holding the tube sockets. The tech should have no problem. Actually, he should be able to check if the resistor(s) open from the top side anyway.

Good luck! I should also mention that a JCM800 is a great sounding amp!

:food-smiley-004:

[Wheeman]

I don't think you will ever get the perfect distortion with JUST the amp distortion alone. Look into overdrive pedals and booster pedals. The EQ is a start. Your son's favourite bands most likely have an extensive pedal board, so check out what they are using and invest in a couple of similar effects.

Its a good start with a tube amp though. :smile:

[JSX/6505]

If he's looking for a more natural sounding distortion I suggest putting a lower gain preamp tube like the 12AT7 in the amps first preamp spot. This will clean up the preamp gain a bit and allow for more natural sounding crunch rather that just intense buzz like gain.

Experimenting with preamp tubes will yeild more noticable results than power tubes. Unless your power tubes are weak and due for a change.

Good preamp tubes for the 6505 are JJ Tesla's, Mullard, Tungsol, Sovtek LPS, Electro Harmonix and Russian made Mesa tubes.

[Budda]

uh... he's using the ME50's distortion instead of the overdrive channel? WHAT? *shakes head*

1. www.eurotubes.com - 6505+ retube kit :). i bought the KT77 standard kit for my jsx, great service, answered my questions promptly (usually within a few hours, or a day) and quick shipping.
2. if he wants natural distortion.. use the amp's distortion. you said he loves the amp's distortion, but keeps using the ME50?!?! have you shaken him yet?? lol
3. overdrive/boost.. most people who boost their amps use overdrive pedals. i'm one of them - i use a modded TS7. www.bodenhamer-electronics.com - have him work for a month and then buy a Chaos-modded TS7. $85 shipped to your door :). Joe is also a great guy! drive: 0 tone: 5 level: 10 for maximus boostus

and i dunno if you want to tell him this or not, but chimaira's 6505's are modded. and im pretty sure they boost them?

tell him to try not using the ME for a little bit, and dial in the amp. im still shuddering at using a pedal for distortion with one of those amps, i really am lol.

what are his settings? tell him to keep the pre-gain down on the lead channel, as it doesnt need to be above 3 IMO. try the EQ at 6 across the board (looks bad, but hey it works on the JSX lol!) it should sound good. resonance at 6.5, presence at 6.5.

[Diablo]

I don't think you will ever get the perfect distortion with JUST the amp distortion alone. Look into overdrive pedals and booster pedals. The EQ is a start. Your son's favourite bands most likely have an extensive pedal board, so check out what they are using and invest in a couple of similar effects.

Its a good start with a tube amp though. :smile:

I agree.
I also have a 6505+, and experienced the same thing as the OP. All this talk of how much gain the amp has on its own, yet IMO, it doesnt have ENOUGH for my tastes, unless the Pre is cranked to 9 (and even then its just marginal).

That being said, I changed out the 4 6L6GC's earlier in the month (Ruby's of an undetermined age) for a set of matched JJ's from ebay and could tell no discernible difference (like Wild Bill said). So unless theres problems with your amp, I wouldnt do it.
Preamp tubes (12ax7's) need to be changed even less often than power amp tubes, so I really wouldnt worry much about them.

OP, I dont know if EVH actually used these amps, probably not...but I do believe a sound like EVH's could be had from them...at the right volume, with the right effects....but Chimera's sound is much heavier than EVH's :) I dont think many Marshalls have much to offer over these-esp. in the same price range, and some (MG's) have much less.
Perhaps to illustrate, your obviously aware of the similarities between the 5150's and 6505's...So here's some pics of the rigs used by the guys in Skid Row...You'll notice that they both use the same basic head, but also have a fair amount of other stuff to create their live sound. I would say their sound isnt too far off from EVH's.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/guitargear/scotti_rig.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/guitargear/snake_amps.JPG

[Budda]

diablo - go get your amp biased. ;)

[Diablo]

diablo - go get your amp biased. ;)

Think so? I've thought about it, just b/c I bought the amp used and so dont know anything about its maintenance history. What does biasing cost?

I'm probably exaggerating my displeasure in my sound a bit...when I crank the amp (Post to 2.5-3 lol) and get some air moving from my cab, with no effects and Pre at 5, I can get a pretty good "Master of Puppets" era sound on the low end with my Gibson Explorer or a bit like Foo Fighters "All my life" sound....the sound for leads is pretty weak sounding though....flat and no sustain, not great for harmonics either, but I'd expect to have to boost it and add some chorus to help achieve a better shredding sound. No offense, it doesnt sound too much different from the "SS org Solo" file on your site. I just like a solo sound to sound more "produced". Like a Bose Wave radio, lol. It definitely sounds better when I put my GP-8 with some distortion ahead of it.


Reco, what sort of guitar/pickups is your son using? have you tried some different guitars through the amp, or even different players? Can you post some sample recordings?

[Budda]

pretty sure it's a mod you'd haev to get done, but it's pretty cheap. cant remember what i heard for a price, but shouldn't be above $40 to get the mod done. I'd get it done. glad the jsx has a bias trim pot in it - set it to where someone else set theirs for KT77's, so far so toneful.

if the power section isnt' really doing it's thing, you probably wont be getting much warmth out of it.

www.myspace.com/allthatremains - these guys have a killer lead tone, and it's just 5150's apparently (not sure what guitars). im sure studio magic helped but :O lol

[Diablo]

pretty sure it's a mod you'd haev to get done, but it's pretty cheap. cant remember what i heard for a price, but shouldn't be above $40 to get the mod done. I'd get it done. glad the jsx has a bias trim pot in it - set it to where someone else set theirs for KT77's, so far so toneful.

if the power section isnt' really doing it's thing, you probably wont be getting much warmth out of it.

www.myspace.com/allthatremains - these guys have a killer lead tone, and it's just 5150's apparently (not sure what guitars). im sure studio magic helped but :O lol

I'll look into it. For $40 I'll chance it. There is actually a bias adjustment dial on 6505+'s...Not that I know what to do with it :)

Interesting band. I like the guitar sound, actually some good tunes as well, altho I could do without the cookie monster vocals, but thats what the kids are into these days I guess. Interesting the way they mix singing with cookie monster...kind of like a way heavier Hawthorne Heights.
Sounds a lot like Chimaira (that the OP's son is trying to emulate).

[Budda]

the vocals actually arent rough at all lol, very smooth and clear for that kind of music. the singer has a good voice, i found. im glad, as i bought the CD on faith knowing that some of my friends like the band haha

i'd say chimaira is a lot more cutting. i hate to use the word "brutal" to describe, but it really does a good job lol.

www.bodenhamer-electronics.com - just tryyy a good boost in front of the 6505, im pretty sure you'd like what it does :). the thing about joe's mods are, he's a 7string guy - so his mods let more low end through, because we have a low B (and for the guys that play 8 strings, a low F# *shakes head*) - no choking the low end, but still tightening things up and smoothing things out. IMO 5150's sound awesome boosted.

[Diablo]

Let us know when you get the BM pedal from Joe, I'm teetering on the edge of getting one.

[konasexone]

If you're gonna do this right , get the amp modded for a few hundred bucks. The gain of each stage needs to be tweaked and the filtering/coupling components need to tuned as well. I just finished doing a Twin and actually took out a stage to get a nicer distortion. More isn't always better, if you get my drift. Don't put a weak tube at the front end. The first tube has to be the cleanest and highest gain otherwise the noise factor of the complete amp suffers. You can get awsome distortion from the amp. Just listen to a Peavey JSX. Also pay attention to the speakers the head is pushing. There's a world of difference between say Celestion 12-75s and Eminence Governors.

[Diablo]

uh... he's using the ME50's distortion instead of the overdrive channel? WHAT? *shakes head*

1. www.eurotubes.com - 6505+ retube kit :). i bought the KT77 standard kit for my jsx, great service, answered my questions promptly (usually within a few hours, or a day) and quick shipping.
2. if he wants natural distortion.. use the amp's distortion. you said he loves the amp's distortion, but keeps using the ME50?!?! have you shaken him yet?? lol
3. overdrive/boost.. most people who boost their amps use overdrive pedals. i'm one of them - i use a modded TS7. www.bodenhamer-electronics.com - have him work for a month and then buy a Chaos-modded TS7. $85 shipped to your door :). Joe is also a great guy! drive: 0 tone: 5 level: 10 for maximus boostus

and i dunno if you want to tell him this or not, but chimaira's 6505's are modded. and im pretty sure they boost them?

tell him to try not using the ME for a little bit, and dial in the amp. im still shuddering at using a pedal for distortion with one of those amps, i really am lol.

what are his settings? tell him to keep the pre-gain down on the lead channel, as it doesnt need to be above 3 IMO. try the EQ at 6 across the board (looks bad, but hey it works on the JSX lol!) it should sound good. resonance at 6.5, presence at 6.5.

Budda, did you get your BM pedal from Joe yet? I ordered one, but prob wont receive it until late next week. In the meantime I upgraded my effects with a Digitech RP-300A, and although its digital sounding, it definitely is gving the map some more potential. Now the trick is fine tuning the effects and figuring out how to use them tasetfully. :)

[Budda]

I'm waiting on getting paid back by a friend before putting my order in :)

I'll make a thread for it when i get it.

you'll love it, they're little tone monsters :D